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"Above all, the Athenian rich paid their taxes because they craved the social success that came from their compatriots publicly identifying them as citizens who

"Above all, the Athenian rich paid their taxes because they craved the social success that came from their compatriots publicly identifying them as citizens who are good because they are useful." This part really resonated with me.

rogerkirkness 6y ago
An interesting quirk of history is that regardless of tax rates the elite tend to put a fairly consistent percentage of wealth back into social causes over time. Leaving giant tips was how the industrialists competed.
- kaba0 6y ago
  Which is absolutely null compared to their income, and does close to absolutely nothing to benefit society - it is only there so they can feel good about themselves.
  - throwaway0a5e 6y ago
    >and does close to absolutely nothing to benefit society About half of society would say the same about taxes. And therein lies the problem. There's a bunch of fundamental disagreements we need to work through.
- barumi 6y ago
  Your example is not compatible with your claim. You're just referring to conspicuous consumption, and how affluent individuals enjoy signaling their wealth and status by flashing their disposable income in status-seeking expenditures. The percentage of wealth that trickles back is irrelevant and only a trace amount, because their point is to signal status by consuming luxury goods and services that others can't afford.
londons_explore 6y ago
I wonder if we could bring this element back into society? For example, the government could send everyone a bumper sticker saying "I have proudly paid $XX thousand dollars of taxes so far". Some things could be given exclusively to high taxpayers - like for example better parking spaces, or the fastlane at the airport or the DMV.
- closeparen 6y ago
  If you publicly acknowledge any role in offsetting a problem, it becomes your fault that the problem is not completely solved [1]. I expect that associating yourself with a government program would make you even more hated, unless that program is 100% successful. Imagine every time someone drives over a pothole they see your face. https://blog.jaibot.com/the-copenhagen-interpretation-of-ethics/ https://blog.jaibot.com/the-copenhagen-interpretation-of-eth...

rogerkirkness 6y ago

An interesting quirk of history is that regardless of tax rates the elite tend to put a fairly consistent percentage of wealth back into social causes over time. Leaving giant tips was how the industrialists competed.

kaba0 6y ago
Which is absolutely null compared to their income, and does close to absolutely nothing to benefit society - it is only there so they can feel good about themselves.
- throwaway0a5e 6y ago
  >and does close to absolutely nothing to benefit society About half of society would say the same about taxes. And therein lies the problem. There's a bunch of fundamental disagreements we need to work through.
barumi 6y ago
Your example is not compatible with your claim. You're just referring to conspicuous consumption, and how affluent individuals enjoy signaling their wealth and status by flashing their disposable income in status-seeking expenditures. The percentage of wealth that trickles back is irrelevant and only a trace amount, because their point is to signal status by consuming luxury goods and services that others can't afford.

londons_explore 6y ago

I wonder if we could bring this element back into society? For example, the government could send everyone a bumper sticker saying "I have proudly paid $XX thousand dollars of taxes so far". Some things could be given exclusively to high taxpayers - like for example better parking spaces, or the fastlane at the airport or the DMV.

closeparen 6y ago
If you publicly acknowledge any role in offsetting a problem, it becomes your fault that the problem is not completely solved [1]. I expect that associating yourself with a government program would make you even more hated, unless that program is 100% successful. Imagine every time someone drives over a pothole they see your face. https://blog.jaibot.com/the-copenhagen-interpretation-of-ethics/ https://blog.jaibot.com/the-copenhagen-interpretation-of-eth...