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> Apple clearly does not want you to have a general-purpose computer Can you explain the existence of the MacBook, iMac, Mac Mini, and Mac Pro?

by vosper 6y ago

NeutronStar 6y ago
There are tremendous hurdles on those devices as well.
cma 6y ago
Legacy stuff that they are currently eroding. They invalidated (or threatened to) developer signatures on Desktop/Laptop that were supposed to be 100% about security over an iOS business dispute.
emsy 6y ago
They have been working on locking those down too, even before they announced the switch to ARM, which will continue this trend.
- tptacek 6y ago
  People have been this since Apple first launched the iOS app store. It plays well on message boards. So far, it has done a terrible job of describing reality.
  - emsy 6y ago
    They are boiling the frog slowly. The T2, app notorization and kext depreciation are steps towards locking the device down. Combined with the iPhone-ification of their hardware I see the Mac becoming more like the iPad than the iPad becoming a general purpose computer.
  - saagarjha 6y ago
    I'd call it a "not great" job at describing reality–Macs today are certainly more locked-down than they were five or ten years ago, but I think it would be unfair to compare them to iOS right now.
- ubermonkey 6y ago
  I'm gonna need actual examples. There is nothing on my Mac that prevents me from downloading and running absolutely anything I want, or from writing my own software and running it. By default, there are security guardrails in place that you have to turn off (one click!), but I 100% support measures like this. It means it's harder for nontechnical people get duped into running nefarious code, but creates no meaningful roadblock to people like HN readers who quite reasonably want to do whatever the hell they like with their computers.
josephcsible 6y ago
Give it a few more years. They're working on it. They've already done Gatekeeper, SIP, removal of kexts, making the root partition read-only every boot even if you turn off SIP, etc.
- imglorp 6y ago
  What was that little storm a few months back where they turned on code signature checking on shell scripts? One could just imagine the final step is you have to have a developer license to run your own code.
  - judge2020 6y ago
    Source? Can't find a HN submission regarding this, and the most I found via Google is this question on the Apple developer forums https://developer.apple.com/forums/thread/127709 https://developer.apple.com/forums/thread/127709.
    - inapis 6y ago
      https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23273247 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23273247 This has driven me insane in 10.15.7. If my ISP has intermittent connectivity, macOS starts beach balling. To prevent this I have to shut off internet. The catch? Shutting down the network requires suffering through multiple beach balls. Every single mouse click or key press invokes a beach ball. Everything goes away the moment internet is connected.
      - imglorp 6y ago
        That's the story. It's funny because the Mac was introduced with a 1984 theme about PC as a uniform experience controlled by central authority and here we are.
        userbinator 6y ago
        Epic Games had some fun mocking that: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WqTNO8LTggI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WqTNO8LTggI
vbezhenar 6y ago
They restrict user with every new macOS release.
- ubermonkey 6y ago
  Nope.
whywhywhywhy 6y ago
What do you think MacBooks will look like in 5 years? From tomorrow they will already be able to run iOS apps.

> Apple clearly does not want you to have a general-purpose computer Can you explain the existence of the MacBook, iMac, Mac Mini, and Mac Pro?

by vosper 6y ago

> Apple clearly does not want you to have a general-purpose computer Can you explain the existence of the MacBook, iMac, Mac Mini, and Mac Pro?

NeutronStar 6y ago

There are tremendous hurdles on those devices as well.

cma 6y ago

Legacy stuff that they are currently eroding. They invalidated (or threatened to) developer signatures on Desktop/Laptop that were supposed to be 100% about security over an iOS business dispute.

emsy 6y ago

They have been working on locking those down too, even before they announced the switch to ARM, which will continue this trend.

tptacek 6y ago
People have been this since Apple first launched the iOS app store. It plays well on message boards. So far, it has done a terrible job of describing reality.
- emsy 6y ago
  They are boiling the frog slowly. The T2, app notorization and kext depreciation are steps towards locking the device down. Combined with the iPhone-ification of their hardware I see the Mac becoming more like the iPad than the iPad becoming a general purpose computer.
- saagarjha 6y ago
  I'd call it a "not great" job at describing reality–Macs today are certainly more locked-down than they were five or ten years ago, but I think it would be unfair to compare them to iOS right now.
ubermonkey 6y ago
I'm gonna need actual examples. There is nothing on my Mac that prevents me from downloading and running absolutely anything I want, or from writing my own software and running it. By default, there are security guardrails in place that you have to turn off (one click!), but I 100% support measures like this. It means it's harder for nontechnical people get duped into running nefarious code, but creates no meaningful roadblock to people like HN readers who quite reasonably want to do whatever the hell they like with their computers.

josephcsible 6y ago

Give it a few more years. They're working on it. They've already done Gatekeeper, SIP, removal of kexts, making the root partition read-only every boot even if you turn off SIP, etc.

imglorp 6y ago
What was that little storm a few months back where they turned on code signature checking on shell scripts? One could just imagine the final step is you have to have a developer license to run your own code.
- judge2020 6y ago
  Source? Can't find a HN submission regarding this, and the most I found via Google is this question on the Apple developer forums https://developer.apple.com/forums/thread/127709 https://developer.apple.com/forums/thread/127709.
  - inapis 6y ago
    https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23273247 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23273247 This has driven me insane in 10.15.7. If my ISP has intermittent connectivity, macOS starts beach balling. To prevent this I have to shut off internet. The catch? Shutting down the network requires suffering through multiple beach balls. Every single mouse click or key press invokes a beach ball. Everything goes away the moment internet is connected.
    - imglorp 6y ago
      That's the story. It's funny because the Mac was introduced with a 1984 theme about PC as a uniform experience controlled by central authority and here we are.
      - userbinator 6y ago
        Epic Games had some fun mocking that: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WqTNO8LTggI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WqTNO8LTggI

vbezhenar 6y ago

They restrict user with every new macOS release.

ubermonkey 6y ago
Nope.

whywhywhywhy 6y ago

What do you think MacBooks will look like in 5 years? From tomorrow they will already be able to run iOS apps.