3 ms·

I was actually going to submit the Zig Newsletter link [1], but I gotta say, randomly talking about another language that is not even released is baffling. [1]

I was actually going to submit the Zig Newsletter link [1], but I gotta say, randomly talking about another language that is not even released is baffling. [1] https://buttondown.email/ZigSHOWTIME/archive/e83ee9c5-53e0-4c9f-855f-0dfe15991cb8 https://buttondown.email/ZigSHOWTIME/archive/e83ee9c5-53e0-4...

kristoff_it 6y ago
Hi that's the newsletter I write and it's not an official thing. That passage is based on my personal experience of watching other projects that I deem reputable (i.e. Jai, Handmade Hero) and doing the very basic thing of looking at how they are doing compared to us. Jonathan Blow is a very smart individual, in a sense that goes way past his programming ability (as exemplified by the fact that 2 out of the 3 talks of his that I link to in the newsletter are not about programming), that said he has approached the development of Jai in a diametrically opposite way compared to what Zig is doing. We have a full-fledged OSS project with contributors, PRs, etc; while JB, while IIRC he plans to open-source the code eventually, does development in private and even got to the point of refusing to showcase new features he's adding because he doesn't want other projects to copy him. Clearly there is a philosophical disagreement there between Zig and Jai, but, as I said earlier, I really think Jai is a valid project and as such I'm not dismissive of those disagreements. On our side of the argument we have a constantly increasing number of contributors, so the point I was making in the newsletter is that it really means something, because, at least according to my perception from watching JB's streams, we're moving at a faster speed. I've personally learned a lot watching Casey and John stream themselves coding (Casey also started a youtube channel on legal cases, which is another very interesting watch), but they're not perfect and in the specific case of developing in the open vs developing in a cave, I think I have a priviledged PoV where I can raise valid criticism. Does everything we write on the internet have to be investor-friendly? Fuck I hope not.
- bpeebles 6y ago
  I don't really understand why it makes sense to spend most of a newsletter about zig 0.7 complaining about another language, instead of the cool stuff about ziglang. They're similar in that they're both "better Cs" but their targets seem pretty different. > Does everything we write on the internet have to be investor-friendly? Fuck I hope not. I don't see it at all reflective about "investor-friendly" but more the existing community around the language. It's great that zig's is active, but if some of the major community members spend seemingly equal/the majorityu of something like a newsletter about a fairly big development release being incredibly negative toward another project while pretending to be respectful, eh. I'm not saying you have to cater to me, since I'm a nobody, but this and a few other things about the zig community have made me less interested in spending my limited free time playing with it.
  - kristoff_it 6y ago
    > being incredibly negative toward another project while pretending to be respectful So you don't refute any of my points about the available information on Jai, but you instead dismiss my entire argument a priori, classifying it as a farce. Ok.
    - bpeebles 6y ago
      It doesn't matter if you're right or wrong about Jai. I just don't understand what it had to do with a ziglang release.
    - nextaccountic 6y ago
      Come on! You didn't even list all the cool new stuff in Zig 0.7.

kristoff_it 6y ago

Hi that's the newsletter I write and it's not an official thing. That passage is based on my personal experience of watching other projects that I deem reputable (i.e. Jai, Handmade Hero) and doing the very basic thing of looking at how they are doing compared to us. Jonathan Blow is a very smart individual, in a sense that goes way past his programming ability (as exemplified by the fact that 2 out of the 3 talks of his that I link to in the newsletter are not about programming), that said he has approached the development of Jai in a diametrically opposite way compared to what Zig is doing. We have a full-fledged OSS project with contributors, PRs, etc; while JB, while IIRC he plans to open-source the code eventually, does development in private and even got to the point of refusing to showcase new features he's adding because he doesn't want other projects to copy him. Clearly there is a philosophical disagreement there between Zig and Jai, but, as I said earlier, I really think Jai is a valid project and as such I'm not dismissive of those disagreements. On our side of the argument we have a constantly increasing number of contributors, so the point I was making in the newsletter is that it really means something, because, at least according to my perception from watching JB's streams, we're moving at a faster speed. I've personally learned a lot watching Casey and John stream themselves coding (Casey also started a youtube channel on legal cases, which is another very interesting watch), but they're not perfect and in the specific case of developing in the open vs developing in a cave, I think I have a priviledged PoV where I can raise valid criticism. Does everything we write on the internet have to be investor-friendly? Fuck I hope not.

bpeebles 6y ago
I don't really understand why it makes sense to spend most of a newsletter about zig 0.7 complaining about another language, instead of the cool stuff about ziglang. They're similar in that they're both "better Cs" but their targets seem pretty different. > Does everything we write on the internet have to be investor-friendly? Fuck I hope not. I don't see it at all reflective about "investor-friendly" but more the existing community around the language. It's great that zig's is active, but if some of the major community members spend seemingly equal/the majorityu of something like a newsletter about a fairly big development release being incredibly negative toward another project while pretending to be respectful, eh. I'm not saying you have to cater to me, since I'm a nobody, but this and a few other things about the zig community have made me less interested in spending my limited free time playing with it.
- kristoff_it 6y ago
  > being incredibly negative toward another project while pretending to be respectful So you don't refute any of my points about the available information on Jai, but you instead dismiss my entire argument a priori, classifying it as a farce. Ok.
  - bpeebles 6y ago
    It doesn't matter if you're right or wrong about Jai. I just don't understand what it had to do with a ziglang release.
  - nextaccountic 6y ago
    Come on! You didn't even list all the cool new stuff in Zig 0.7.