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Switzerland is not part of the european union but has to follow some rules to have access to their market. If Whatsapp breaks E2E it will possibly affect multip

Switzerland is not part of the european union but has to follow some rules to have access to their market. If Whatsapp breaks E2E it will possibly affect multiple countries.

dogma1138 6y ago
If WhatsApp breaks E2E in Europe every other country will jump on the bandwagon.
- GekkePrutser 6y ago
  WhatsApp is hardly safe from prying eyes anyway. Sure, there's always-on E2E encryption that is really well designed. However, WhatsApp constantly prompts every user to back up to the cloud, which is much less well secured. Thus, it's pretty trivial for the authorities to get to it there, I'm sure they can get into iCloud and Google Drive if they want to. It only takes one person in the conversation to have this option switched on. I think this is why WhatsApp doesn't get so much flak from the authorities for having good E2E encryption.
  - hated 6y ago
    Which is to say WhatsApp is perfectly secure as long as the hostile actor cannot access the WhatsApp backups. Only nation state actors might be able to do that.
    - HideousKojima 6y ago
      >Only nation state actors might be able to do that. Nah, all it takes is a good spear phishing campaign like the iCloud celebrity nudes leak a few years ago
    - freshhawk 6y ago
      Isn't it more like "literally any LEO or pseudo-LEO in a 'friendly' country" at this point based on what we know at this point? I think the threat model here is less about a hostile actor subverting the backups than the extreme ease of access to all data on those systems that is given to law enforcement?
    - mr_woozy 6y ago
      or until LEO or State Security compels / sidepushes a trojan app update via play store update. It's as trivial as that. Or just tap the baseband chip via the provider.
    - GekkePrutser 6y ago
      Yes but as a user you don't control this. That's the problem. Anyone you're talking to can activate cloud backups and there is no way to know.
  - kenniskrag 6y ago
    Whatsapp was just an example. There are other messengers out there and also the Email with SMIME and PGP is possibly affected.
  - dogma1138 6y ago
    Those are unrelated issues which also switch the burden to your cloud storage service provider in this case Google or Apple. This isn’t part of the threat model we are discussing here.

Switzerland is not part of the european union but has to follow some rules to have access to their market. If Whatsapp breaks E2E it will possibly affect multiple countries.

dogma1138 6y ago

If WhatsApp breaks E2E in Europe every other country will jump on the bandwagon.

GekkePrutser 6y ago
WhatsApp is hardly safe from prying eyes anyway. Sure, there's always-on E2E encryption that is really well designed. However, WhatsApp constantly prompts every user to back up to the cloud, which is much less well secured. Thus, it's pretty trivial for the authorities to get to it there, I'm sure they can get into iCloud and Google Drive if they want to. It only takes one person in the conversation to have this option switched on. I think this is why WhatsApp doesn't get so much flak from the authorities for having good E2E encryption.
- hated 6y ago
  Which is to say WhatsApp is perfectly secure as long as the hostile actor cannot access the WhatsApp backups. Only nation state actors might be able to do that.
  - HideousKojima 6y ago
    >Only nation state actors might be able to do that. Nah, all it takes is a good spear phishing campaign like the iCloud celebrity nudes leak a few years ago
  - freshhawk 6y ago
    Isn't it more like "literally any LEO or pseudo-LEO in a 'friendly' country" at this point based on what we know at this point? I think the threat model here is less about a hostile actor subverting the backups than the extreme ease of access to all data on those systems that is given to law enforcement?
  - mr_woozy 6y ago
    or until LEO or State Security compels / sidepushes a trojan app update via play store update. It's as trivial as that. Or just tap the baseband chip via the provider.
  - GekkePrutser 6y ago
    Yes but as a user you don't control this. That's the problem. Anyone you're talking to can activate cloud backups and there is no way to know.
- kenniskrag 6y ago
  Whatsapp was just an example. There are other messengers out there and also the Email with SMIME and PGP is possibly affected.
- dogma1138 6y ago
  Those are unrelated issues which also switch the burden to your cloud storage service provider in this case Google or Apple. This isn’t part of the threat model we are discussing here.