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Restoring a 37 Year-Old IBM F Mechanical Keyboard
- slipheen 6y agoWhat a wonderful restoration! They really are lovely keyboards. I am sure many people already know, but just in case- There is also a dedicated enthusiast who has worked to painstakingly reproduce the model F keyboard, and make them available for sale at https://www.modelfkeyboards.com https://www.modelfkeyboards.com
- opsdisk 6y agoCoincidentally, there was a HN post about it today: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25025035 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25025035
- every 6y agoClicky, I bet...
- lettergram 6y agoI used to have companies pay me to dispose of their old terminals. We then converted the keyboards to USBs and sold them ($100-$300 per board). Was easily one of the best little business ventures I had. Was making hundreds to thousands an hour, course there’s limited supply and demand so it wasn’t sustainable.
- tartoran 6y agoIntersting position for the ctrl and caps lock keys. Is that the original position of these keys or was this keyboard customized?
- peteri 6y agoThat's the usual position for them prior to the 102 key keyboard introduction. Really wrecked the Ctrl sequences of wordstar and the movement diamond. I've been wondering about recreating an classic AT keyboard layout for my own use but I haven't really got a good place for the F11/F12 function keys yet.
- icedchai 6y agoOther 80's computers, like the Apple IIc, Amiga, workstations like the Sun-3 series, NextStation, etc. had the control key to the left of the "A". It felt more natural to me in that position.
- lqet 6y agoAround 12 years ago, I bought a used Model M. It uses a slightly different technique for registering keypresses but looks about the same on the inside as the Model F. It worked great. After 3 days, I decided to clean it up and open it. I then quickly destroyed it by using a bit too much water during the cleaning. It got into the plastic tubes with the springs [0] and that was the end of most of the keys. I tried drying it with a hairdryer, but without success. The black plastic visible on the image is attached to the board by melted plastic joints, so removing it without destroying it is not possible. Congratulations to the author for not making the same stupid mistake as me. Of course, you can still experience the clickiness of the Model M without owning one with the great emulator [1]. It's available on Debian and Ubuntu dev-releases: sudo apt-get install bucklespring [0] https://blog.opsdisk.com/images/keyboard/preclean.jpg https://blog.opsdisk.com/images/keyboard/preclean.jpg [1] https://github.com/zevv/bucklespring https://github.com/zevv/bucklespring
- projektfu 6y agoTry drying it with grain alcohol or methanol.
- jacobush 6y agoA day or two in the oven at low heat has fixed many similar situations for me.
- analognoise 6y agoOr you could buy a modern model M from the people who still make them - Unicomp - for ~$100 https://www.pckeyboard.com/ https://www.pckeyboard.com/ They're awesome.
- _nickwhite 6y agoYears ago I bought a huge box of old IBM Model-M keyboards- not model F's like here, but pretty close. I planned on refurbishing and reselling on eBay, but quickly discovered the cost of shipping ate any profit I hoped to make on them. Life lesson learned.
- nitrogen 6y agoThey go for much higher now. I'm down to just one Model M left that I use every day, and I regret not trying to rescue the several that failed along the way.
- beervirus 6y agoThis is timely, I just bought a Model F off eBay. It will need some work, but it should be a great keyboard. Here’s the video that inspired me to buy one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9Jds326gks https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9Jds326gks
- opsdisk 6y agoI had a link to that same video in the post. It was great getting more of the background about them. Good luck with the restore!
- FpUser 6y agoI have keyboard from 1992. Still works fine
- icedchai 6y agoThose keyboards were nice. Very clicky! Around 1985 or so my dad had an IBM PC/AT at his company. They had purchased a real time stock quotation service that needed a satellite dish on the roof. It was cutting edge for the time. I remember not only that keyboard, but learning about stocks for the first time...
- wrs 6y agoCMU had rooms full of IBM PCs for student use in 1983-4. You practically needed to wear ear protectors with all those keyboards going!
- opsdisk 6y agoThat is funny imagining the sheer noise! Luckily it's just me in the room with the keyboard.
- macjohnmcc 6y agoRemember when these came out and how similar they were to the terminal keyboards of the time. For a long time I preferred these over the model M that defined our modern keyboards.
- iammru 6y agoSo satisfying to look at...
- Aloha 6y agoYou know I'm not sure I'd pick the Model F as the keyboard I'd want on my desk, simply because of the non-standard layout.
- samatman 6y agoOne of the best things about it, if you happen to like having Control on the home row. My first decade and change of typing was on a Model F, from my father's PC-AT. I still have it, although I use an Ergodox now and might never plug it in again. Great piece of hardware, durable like a tank and excellent key feel.
- thaeli 6y agoThis is one of the best things about those new production Model F boards - they are the "Kishsaver" style which with some key cap changes can be made very similar to a modern 80% layout.
- Aloha 6y agoThey're missing too many keys I consider.. critical, home/end, insert/delete, F-Keys, a modern 10-key layout - as I'm typing this on a modern production Model M, I'm hard pressed to tell what makes these better than the unicomp ones I have now.
- timw4mail 6y agoThe AT version is a little better in that regard, but also seem to be somewhat rarer. I'm still waiting on the "modern" Model F.
- 1-more 6y agoThere is a project to get new ones made. I've met the dude behind it at a few keyboard meetups around NYC. I guess they are finally shipping! An absolutely herculean effort on his part. https://www.modelfkeyboards.com https://www.modelfkeyboards.com
- nickt 6y ago$1.2MM in orders, that’s astonishing. Well done!
- voldacar 6y agoI have this exact keyboard, an '83 XT! Built like a tank (seriously, you could bludgeon someone to death with it) and the smoothest, most pleasurable keyswitch out of the dozens I've tried. The F keyswitch makes all cherry clones feel like cheap Chinese crap, sadly this is why I had to part with my ergodox. The only downsides are the loud typing and the nonstandard layout, which you might prefer once you get used to it (ctrl key to the left of a). If you're looking for a serious keyboard to last you the rest of your life, I highly recommend the F.
- opsdisk 6y agoGreat to hear you like yours! The different Ctrl key location and no super/windows key have been the most noticeable for me so far.
- voldacar 6y agoYes, the lack of a windows key can be a little annoying - I have F8 mapped to it in my soarer's converter config, which seems to be a pretty convenient location. And I have yet to encounter any software where F8 does something super critical that can't be remapped
- Zhenya 6y agoI daily drive an original 80s model m that I found in the trash and restored. Almost everyone that comes into my office comments on it, some engineers are truly giddy. Funny enough our ultra-high spec engineering workstations have native ps/2 ports, no adapters necessary! I left it at the office over the pandemic, it's one of the things I miss the most at home .
- ddingus 6y agoHave someone ship it! Original restored ones are the best. Well loved and who ever does the restore has an investment that tends to amplify the good experience.
- 1MachineElf 6y agoRecently I scored a Packard Bell M7US02X-20 keyboard. It's switches are a simpler design than the Model F, but typing feel and key placement are very similar.
- WalterBright 6y agoI still have the one I bought in 1982 or so somewhere in the basement.
- opsdisk 6y agoDid you purchase it individually? Do you recall what you paid for it? In the blog, I linked to a YouTube video that said they retailed for $300-400. I believe it, but would like to hear confirmation.
- WalterBright 6y agoI bought it bundled with my original IBM PC. The total price was around $3300 if I recall correctly.
- drivers99 6y agoI still have this keyboard along with my first computer, a second-hand IBM PC (5150). The Alt key has some inconsistency registering so I was hoping for some detailed fixing but looks like he just did some deep cleaning and ended up with some bad keys as well.
- opsdisk 6y agoSomeone pointed out that this site to me that sells replacement parts. I was looking at getting new flipper springs for the keys that don't always register. https://www.modelfkeyboards.com/product/flipperspring/ https://www.modelfkeyboards.com/product/flipperspring/
- accrual 6y agoI wonder if it would be worth putting a layer of black paint or a clear sealant over the metal plate that was exposed? I'd just worry having freshly exposed metal like that might eventually rust.
- opsdisk 6y agoAny recommendations for a type of black paint? I'll probably check it once a year, but I'm not too worried since the environment is pretty stable.
- nullc 6y agoI use a model-f terminal keyboard with a small microcontroller to convert it to usb. It's pretty great. I used to use model-ms but they became hard to get, and I gave away far too many of them back at a time when they weren't scarce. (I still have two, but can't replace them at a reasonable price if they fail) The extra keys on the model-f terminal keyboards are handy too. There was a window where I worried that my two remaining model-ms were going to have to last me the rest of my life. Fortunately there are now a lot of mechanical keyboards available at reasonable prices. I like the model-m and model-f keyboards somewhat better, but many other mechanical keyboard choices are pretty good too.
- tsar_bomba 6y agoLOL, can you replace the F122 if it fails? Not sure if I follow your argument here :)
- nullc 6y ago[Replying to the dead reply: I was able to buy a bunch of model-f terminal keyboards, and last I checked they're still available at non-astronomical prices; presumably due to the difficulty of connecting them to modern hosts.]
- beamatronic 6y agoI loved typing on those. Sheer joy.
- Ndymium 6y agoI've done two keyboard "restorations" if you are interested in seeing similar posts: * Restoring a Cherry G80-1000 from the late 1980s (new switches + cleanup): https://blog.nytsoi.net/2018/05/16/restoring-cherry-g80-1000 https://blog.nytsoi.net/2018/05/16/restoring-cherry-g80-1000 * Converting an IBM Wheelwriter keyboard (similar to IBM Model M) to USB: https://blog.nytsoi.net/2018/11/28/ibm-wheelwriter-usb-conversion https://blog.nytsoi.net/2018/11/28/ibm-wheelwriter-usb-conve... I've been looking around for a Model F which would really be the crown jewel of my collection, but unfortunately they are very rare and everyone who owns one really knows its value. As for my own use, after I got an Ultimate Hacking Keyboard I have no longer used the Cherry or other keyboards for real work. Getting a split keyboard "ruined" me from others, so they are now just novelty items.
- opsdisk 6y agoI didn't search too long, but did not find using "dental tabs" to clean the key caps! Glad it worked out though, enjoyed reading your cherry restore.
- Ndymium 6y agoI think a better search term is "denture tabs". I found many hits like this: https://www.keychatter.com/2014/08/01/how-to-clean-keycaps/ https://www.keychatter.com/2014/08/01/how-to-clean-keycaps/
- jwr 6y agoI am a big fan of old-style mechanical switches. In fact, I recently restored my old NTC keyboard from the 80s. But having tried to use it, I just can't get over the fact that these keyboards were seriously lacking modifier keys. I need at least Ctrl, Alt and Command to work comfortably, and ideally also have Fn and Super. You can get away with remapping right-side modifiers to do something else, but you can't add a key that isn't physically there — so if the left side of the spacebar does not have at least three modifier keys, the keyboard is not very useful for me… Also, having gotten used to the UHK (Ultimate Hacking Keyboard), I find that the huge space bar is a waste: I only ever hit the space key with the right thumb, and I'd much rather have an entire row of modifiers than a huge spacebar key, which mostly goes unused.
- MivLives 6y agoI'm a bit fan of split space boards as well. Luckily there seems to be some movement to bring that to 65%+ market. I have space and backspace at the bottom of the board, and it saves my pinky a ton of work.
- wombatmobile 6y agoGreat project and terrific write-up. The only thing I could suggest for improvement is the part when a YouTube ad spoils the flow: "This tank of a keyboard weighs in at over 6 pounds, sounds like [. . .]" It would have been nice to just hover and hear the clack clack clack of the ancient beast. But - advertising - sigh.
- ianbooker 6y agoHN introduced me to mechanical keyboards and especially the Model M, way before the renaissance we see now. So I sourced some Model Ms (before it was pricey) and Apple Extended Keyboards. For the sake of my office mates, I ended up using external but oldschool Thinkpad keyboards for silence and office peace. I had high hopes for an external Apple butterfly keyboard, since it basically fulfills the promise of mechanical keyboards in providing haptical and audible feedback, combined with a shorter key travel. Additionally it would have been socially accepted far more easily than anything mentioned above;) Since that will not be happening anytime soon, I have to wait 10 years until the virtues of the butterfly mechanism will be rediscovered by a small group of enthusiasts and hackers. :P
- UYChuH 6y agoI brought (a 34 year old one) a few years dirt cheap ago off eBay. It came speckled in someone's blood, who'd apparently died on top of it. A good (and very thorough) wash later and its as good as new. The best (and loudest) keyboard I use. Its best feature is the little ridge to hold your pencil on top of it---why don't more keyboards have one?
- opsdisk 6y agoI hadn't even noticed the ridge on top could be used to hold stuff. I'll have to leverage that more!
- Bayart 6y agoThanks for the article, that really hit the spot. I've been on a Chyrosran22 [1] binge lately (he's got a general Model F review [2]), and I'm toying with the idea of making a 75% with ALPS switches, once I manage to find switches or a board at an acceptable price. [1] https://www.youtube.com/user/Chyrosran22 https://www.youtube.com/user/Chyrosran22 [2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9Jds326gks https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9Jds326gks
- dawidw 6y agoIs it possible to buy "sample keyboard"? Kind of couple of keys to hear and feel? I know it's possible to buy switches themselves with all the colours, however I'd like to try how they work with keys before I buy the full keyboard.
- MivLives 6y agoSome switch testers will come with caps. Otherwise you can just get blank caps rather cheaply and put them on. If you want a slightly more in-depth experience, there are hotswap macro pads that will let you change out switches, with keycaps, and actually input things with them. The only other option is to track down a keyboard meetup, at least that will be an option against post covid.