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Yes. So for a static location that's feasible. But the status quo is they can also tap old school mobile voice calls and text messages.

AnthonyMouse 6y ago
The status quo today is that various encrypted messaging apps exist without any apparent backdoors. This has been the case for several years already. The status quo from not long before that was that mobile phones and text messages didn't exist at all.
- alkonaut 6y ago
  Yes. Perhaps the endgame here is that when "old school" voice/text shrinks, so does that avenue for eavesdropping, and once it's almost zero, then allowing any e2e doesn't mean a loss of ability anyway. Also, so long as metadata is available from cell towers, you can still use the most useful piece of data: that someone's phone was at a crime scene, even if the communication itself was encrypted. That will always be the case (unfortunately also in authoritarian regimes).
wizzwizz4 6y ago
Which they can do, too. Just break into an Android phone (easy enough to do remotely). Bug home, bug the car, bug shoes, now you have phone calls from an iPhone. (You can pick up electrical interference from phone calls on an iPhone, due to the hearing aid induction loop.) For every phone, you can just slip an antenna under the case (or in the phone's body) and pick up the LCD switching interference – faint though it may be – and figure out what's on the screen from there. Or, you know, CCTV. Encryption-for-the-masses merely protects from mass surveillance; anyone protecting themselves from targeted surveillance isn't going to suffer from an encryption ban.
- alkonaut 6y ago
  I don't see any good middle ground between "authorities can never eavesdrop on inviduals' comms even with a warrant" and "authorities can do mass surveillance". It's a very difficult dilemma. I (as you do) prefer the former if I have to choose. I understand why it's not a very wasy pill to swallow though. Hopefully techniques for targeted eavesdropping (like those you mention) will improve as e2e gets more widespread. The easy of eavesdropping on mobile comms has probably been too comfortable for too long.

AnthonyMouse 6y ago

The status quo today is that various encrypted messaging apps exist without any apparent backdoors. This has been the case for several years already. The status quo from not long before that was that mobile phones and text messages didn't exist at all.

alkonaut 6y ago
Yes. Perhaps the endgame here is that when "old school" voice/text shrinks, so does that avenue for eavesdropping, and once it's almost zero, then allowing any e2e doesn't mean a loss of ability anyway. Also, so long as metadata is available from cell towers, you can still use the most useful piece of data: that someone's phone was at a crime scene, even if the communication itself was encrypted. That will always be the case (unfortunately also in authoritarian regimes).

wizzwizz4 6y ago

Which they can do, too. Just break into an Android phone (easy enough to do remotely). Bug home, bug the car, bug shoes, now you have phone calls from an iPhone. (You can pick up electrical interference from phone calls on an iPhone, due to the hearing aid induction loop.) For every phone, you can just slip an antenna under the case (or in the phone's body) and pick up the LCD switching interference – faint though it may be – and figure out what's on the screen from there. Or, you know, CCTV. Encryption-for-the-masses merely protects from mass surveillance; anyone protecting themselves from targeted surveillance isn't going to suffer from an encryption ban.

alkonaut 6y ago
I don't see any good middle ground between "authorities can never eavesdrop on inviduals' comms even with a warrant" and "authorities can do mass surveillance". It's a very difficult dilemma. I (as you do) prefer the former if I have to choose. I understand why it's not a very wasy pill to swallow though. Hopefully techniques for targeted eavesdropping (like those you mention) will improve as e2e gets more widespread. The easy of eavesdropping on mobile comms has probably been too comfortable for too long.