3 ms·
Oh, by the way - talking about politics is definitely something I avoid. I grew up in a culture that was strongly in favour of being friends with people who are
by Smaug123 6y ago
Oh, by the way - talking about politics is definitely something I avoid. I grew up in a culture that was strongly in favour of being friends with people who are different from you, and this is one of the ways I try and achieve that (I have at least one friendship which I think would end if we started talking about politics, unless I were extremely careful and chose the right moment and so on). My friends generally know roughly what political directions I lean in, but I know a couple of things: I probably won't be able to change someone's mind on a political issue, and it's nevertheless important to have friends who have different politics from my own.
In fact, my general uncertainty regarding political action has largely stemmed from that sort of thing. For example, I personally know people who are rabidly in favour of Trump and people who are rabidly against him, and I know those people are all reasonable in other regards. This is what makes me so unsure that I'm right: of course I have an opinion, but I personally know reasonable people who differ. I really do not know whether a given political action is right; reasonable people can clearly be wrong about politics, even granting that I am a reasonable person! This is why voting is good in principle (though not necessarily in current implementation): it allows us to aggregate the knowledge and opinions of many uncertain participants.
To what extent is it worth risking a friendship by acting? That's something else on which otherwise-reasonable people genuinely differ - some will say "if a person holds evil views then you should expunge them from your life", and some will say "we are more alike than we are unalike". Of course, if a friendship is nice and solid, with good truth-seeking norms around discussing controversial things, then that kind of conversation is much less risky and so I'd be much more likely to hold it; but good epistemological norms aren't something I can impose on others (it takes two to tango). The safest way to do something I am quite confident is right (maintain friendships with people who are unlike me) is to avoid discussing politics. There is clear value in at least dropping hints of my own politics, so that my friends who disagree can realise that they have a friend who disagrees; but I fear that in some cases there is a rather tenuous social contract in place, which will pop like a bubble under excessive scrutiny.
This is the only policy I have yet found which is immune to [scissor statements](https://slatestarcodex.com/2018/10/30/sort-by-controversial/ https://slatestarcodex.com/2018/10/30/sort-by-controversial/): to recognise such statements as being scissors, on which reasonable people may reasonably differ, and to mutually agree to avoid them unless you're in a particularly hygienic epistemological environment.
- didibus 6y agoI think it's quite healthy to agree to disagree with certain people. We all need to learn to coexist. If both parties can agree to disagree, then a compromise is found which actually makes both parties happy. In a sense, this is an agreement in and of itself. You could even posit this is one of the fundamental ideas behind multi-culturalism. Now I'd say this is different from hiding your values. If you're afraid to speak to your friend, because you think they will turn on you if they knew you didn't align with their views, that is not a friend and you should probably get rid of this person from your life as they are a liability. But not trying to force others to think like you is definitely a good quality, forcing anything on anyone in my value judgement is mostly bad. Now, I'll say generally though, it is hard to be friends with someone who's values goes against your own. For example, if I'm pro-life and you are not. Or if you favour white people over black and I am black. Or if you are anti-gay and I am gay. There is no easy resolution here, compromise isn't a real option. If people only hold these diverging values as opinion, but don't take actions on them, it could still work, but as soon as someone takes actions on them, it'll create a conflict that the person with the opposite value set cannot easily ignore, especially if they are the target of the act. That's why in some way, any country needs to align on value set or risk falling appart. Thus discussing why we each hold our values, and trying to unify people's value over time through education, conversation, discussion, is a healthy activity in my opinion. Sometimes people hold values because of other values. Like I might value peace and law abiding attitudes, and therefore hate black people, because I am afraid they promote crime. Untangling these and making people realize that they might have the wrong data leading them to the wrong inferences can help. And so, this is why I personally value "liberal values" above all else. And I believe these are the axioms of any peaceful, prosperous and free society. Because the liberal values are a set of values that win over all others, which are designed for peaceful coexistence of people, even those of diverging values, beliefs and opinions. But while you can diverge in all other aspects, you can't diverge on the value of liberal values, that is, if you don't value peaceful and harmonious win/win coexistence with others above all else, well you cannot achieve it.