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> remember the Russian hacking of voter systems in 2016? The funniest thing is, those are the same people claiming the election is ironclad now, now that it's
by ulucs 6y ago
> remember the Russian hacking of voter systems in 2016?
The funniest thing is, those are the same people claiming the election is ironclad now, now that it's them who have won.
I think Turkey can be a great example in this regard. No one trusts the opposing parties with cheating, so every single vote is watched by six parties simultaneously during the count:
1. There are paper ballots thrown in the cases
2. After the election ends, the votes are counted openly. It is a constitutional right to be there and watch while votes are counted.
3. After the count ends, the tally is written down and posted for anyone to see. People take pictures of the tally in order to upload into a central database - be it a party's or an unaffiliated third party's
4. The cases are then shipped to the election committee, which aggregate the results. They also post the results of each case, so that anyone can check against the database and contest of there are mistakes.
The whole process is open to be checked by everyone and since trust is so low these days, everyone keeps track very closely. Even in Turkey's conditions, this gives some kind of peace of mind.
- matthewmacleod 6y agoThe funniest thing is, those are the same people claiming the election is ironclad now, now that it's them who have won. No they aren’t.
- tha0xe 6y agoYes they are.
- lukev 6y agoYou're describing exactly what happens in (most) of the US. The "fraud" alleged by Trump in this case consists mostly of his observers being asked to stand 6 feet back so the election officials could actually work. And the officials themselves are selected from each party.
- easytiger 6y agoMy assumption was that it was so they couldn't read identities on postal ballots. Another claim of fraud was that they were not allowed to photograph the ballots.
- pxx 6y agoIt seems pretty clear that one would not be allowed to photograph ballots when their identifying envelopes haven't been removed yet... The secret ballot is still a thing in most states.
- Brybry 6y agoFraud would be a more worrying concern if they were allowed to photograph ballots. In some states it's illegal to photograph your own ballot due to concerns of vote selling and coercion. The distance thing is complicated. I assume it's in reference to Pennsylvania. 6 feet was due to COVID-19 social distancing rules but watchers were actually originally segregated much farther away (at least in Philadelphia). I think the PA Supreme court overturned the 6 feet thing and watchers are farther away again but unsure. I don't think PA law actually says how far watchers have to be. https://www.legis.state.pa.us/cfdocs/legis/li/uconsCheck.cfm?yr=2019&sessInd=0&act=77 https://www.legis.state.pa.us/cfdocs/legis/li/uconsCheck.cfm... Some of the complaints are fair. For example, IANAL but the PA law clearly states that mail-in ballots have to be received by election day.
- Fnoord 6y agoThe inability to prove you voted on a specific candidate is an integral part of a democracy. Privacy within a voting booth allows such, and any tools which take such privacy away (most commonly using a smartphone or camera) are therefore not allowed in a voting booth. > For example, IANAL but the PA law clearly states that mail-in ballots have to be received by election day. If it clearly states X you might as well link to it. From what I understood they can allowed if the votes were cast in time (which a stamp proves), even if received a few days later (though with a deadline).
- Fnoord 6y ago6 feet. 6 feet is approx 2 meters, which is about the distance you need to keep for COVID-19. That alone is a valid reason to keep your distance; we don't want those who are counting votes to become ill (or worse), thereby slowing down the progress. I'm a regular counter in Dutch elections, and observers should not interfere with counters (such as photographs, talking, noise, etc). It gives them unnecessary stress which reduces their output. Leave these people alone, let them do their job.