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No, but I'd love to hear about it. I see a lot of c++ devs complaining about how after 20 years they still haven't found a common ground on how to properly use

by stephth 15y ago

No, but I'd love to hear about it. I see a lot of c++ devs complaining about how after 20 years they still haven't found a common ground on how to properly use c++ [1], its complicated memory management or its poor support for strings [2], things that are taken for granted with objc and Core Foundation. On one side I see an incredible amount of developers dealing with high amounts of complexity with C++, and on the other hand this low-level dynamic language with a powerful [3] open-source standard library [4] that is sadly only commonly used to build Cocoa apps. I'd love to hear about objc+CF for things like game development on other platforms than iOS or OSX, or an explanation to why it's not happening. I really really don't mean to instigate a flame war here -- I'd just love to hear more about this topic. [1] http://google-styleguide.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/cppguide.xml http://google-styleguide.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/cppguide.x... [2] http://benjamin.smedbergs.us/blog/2007-11-05/what-if/ http://benjamin.smedbergs.us/blog/2007-11-05/what-if/ [3] http://ridiculousfish.com/blog/archives/2005/12/23/array/ http://ridiculousfish.com/blog/archives/2005/12/23/array/ [4] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Core_Foundation http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Core_Foundation

blub 15y ago
Your references don't support the points that you are trying to make. [1] is just a link to Google's C++ style guide, a specific guide that makes sense for the very large C++ projects inside Google. Projects should create their own guides based on their requirements. The common ground is already there, you can read about it in C++ Coding Standards by Sutter and Alexandrescu. [2] is someone wondering whether they should replace C++ with a mostly-C++-compatible language for Firefox. First of all, they are complaining about memory safety, not management which plagues Obj-C just as much or even more, given the fact that it doesn't improve over C's safety like C++ does. Second of all, there are several libraries that can talk to the STL and effectively solve the UTF8 problem. [3] This can easily be done by the STL, which besides having an open source implementations is also an ISO standard.
- stephth 15y ago
  I can't tell if you're saying that examples are not enough to back my points or if those examples just don't back my points at all. If it's the latter: [1] is an example that illustrates the complexity of C++. Show me a style guide or debates about how to use the core of the language in objc. [2] is an example of someone unsatisfied with memory management and string support in c++. There are tons of those out there. Show me one for objc. Admittedly memory management is a matter of taste, but I retain/release/autorelease quite simple to use and I haven't found anything quite on a par with that mechanism in c++. [3] what do you mean "it can easily be done"? There's nothing being done there, the author is just observing how the implementation of arrays changes based on the size of the dataset; it's an example of the details behind CF. Are you saying STL automatically optimizes as well?

by stephth 15y ago

blub 15y ago

Your references don't support the points that you are trying to make. [1] is just a link to Google's C++ style guide, a specific guide that makes sense for the very large C++ projects inside Google. Projects should create their own guides based on their requirements. The common ground is already there, you can read about it in C++ Coding Standards by Sutter and Alexandrescu. [2] is someone wondering whether they should replace C++ with a mostly-C++-compatible language for Firefox. First of all, they are complaining about memory safety, not management which plagues Obj-C just as much or even more, given the fact that it doesn't improve over C's safety like C++ does. Second of all, there are several libraries that can talk to the STL and effectively solve the UTF8 problem. [3] This can easily be done by the STL, which besides having an open source implementations is also an ISO standard.

stephth 15y ago
I can't tell if you're saying that examples are not enough to back my points or if those examples just don't back my points at all. If it's the latter: [1] is an example that illustrates the complexity of C++. Show me a style guide or debates about how to use the core of the language in objc. [2] is an example of someone unsatisfied with memory management and string support in c++. There are tons of those out there. Show me one for objc. Admittedly memory management is a matter of taste, but I retain/release/autorelease quite simple to use and I haven't found anything quite on a par with that mechanism in c++. [3] what do you mean "it can easily be done"? There's nothing being done there, the author is just observing how the implementation of arrays changes based on the size of the dataset; it's an example of the details behind CF. Are you saying STL automatically optimizes as well?