6 ms·

Wow. We all saw it happen.

by jgwil2 6y ago

iso1210 6y ago
How do you reach a common ground with people who reject the evidence of their eyes and ears?
- ZeteticElench 6y ago
  You can't.
- lawnchair_larry 6y ago
  I would ask you this question. Let’s start by referencing the supposed incident in question. Where did your eyes/ears see and hear this?
lawnchair_larry 6y ago
We absolutely didn’t. Show me if you know otherwise.
- jgwil2 6y ago
  Please see nl's comment elsewhere in this thread.
defen 6y ago
This is at the level of people who claim they saw Sarah Palin say "I can see Russia from my house". If it really happened, and "we all saw it", it should be trivial for you to produce a video of Trump asking Russia to hack the Democrats.
- nl 6y ago
  Direct quote from Trump: "Russia, if you are listening I hope you are able to find the 30,000 emails that are missing." https://youtu.be/-b71f2eYdTc?t=20 https://youtu.be/-b71f2eYdTc?t=20 From https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/trump-asked-russia-to-find-clintons-emails-on-or-around-the-same-day-russians-targeted-her-accounts https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/trump-asked-russia-to-...
  - defen 6y ago
    The emails under discussion were on Hilary Clinton's personal email server, and had been deleted. So the two questions you should ask are: 1) How would a hack, initiated after Trump's statement, find those emails - even in principle? 2) Even if we posit that such a hack was requested, how does that transmute into a request to "hack the Democrats"?
    - jgwil2 6y ago
      1) You really think Trump understands that? 2) It's a direct request to hack the Democratic presidential candidate and party standard bearer.
      - defen 6y ago
        > 2) It's a direct request to hack the Democratic presidential candidate and party standard bearer. So if someone were to hack Trump's emails, do you think it would be an accurate statement to say that they "hacked the Republicans"?
        nl 6y ago
        While he was running for president as the candidate of the Republican party? Yes of course! Does your argument really come down to trying to parse a difference between Hillary Clinton and the Democratic party? I'd note the "hack the Democrats" was the OPs characterisation of what happened. If you'd prefer to claim that Trump asked Russia to hack Hillary Clinton I'm not going to try to argue that point.
        defen 6y ago
        I think "Trump asked the Russians to find Hillary Clinton's emails" is entirely uncontroversial. Saying he asked the Russians to "hack" the "Democrats" involves two inferences and seems like a statement designed to maximize discord. The Russians are not in Donald Trump's chain of command, there are other ways to find her emails than hacking, and Hillary Clinton is not "the Democrats". This will be my last post on the topic because it reminds of the "blue dress/green dress" thing someone posted way up thread. I'm sure you're posting in good faith, and I assure you I am too, but it is just not at all obvious to me why someone would say "Donald Trump asked the Russians to hack the Democrats" instead of "Donald Trump asked the Russians to find Hillary Clinton's emails".

Wow. We all saw it happen.

by jgwil2 6y ago

Wow. We all saw it happen.

iso1210 6y ago

How do you reach a common ground with people who reject the evidence of their eyes and ears?

ZeteticElench 6y ago
You can't.
lawnchair_larry 6y ago
I would ask you this question. Let’s start by referencing the supposed incident in question. Where did your eyes/ears see and hear this?

lawnchair_larry 6y ago

We absolutely didn’t. Show me if you know otherwise.

jgwil2 6y ago
Please see nl's comment elsewhere in this thread.

defen 6y ago

This is at the level of people who claim they saw Sarah Palin say "I can see Russia from my house". If it really happened, and "we all saw it", it should be trivial for you to produce a video of Trump asking Russia to hack the Democrats.

nl 6y ago
Direct quote from Trump: "Russia, if you are listening I hope you are able to find the 30,000 emails that are missing." https://youtu.be/-b71f2eYdTc?t=20 https://youtu.be/-b71f2eYdTc?t=20 From https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/trump-asked-russia-to-find-clintons-emails-on-or-around-the-same-day-russians-targeted-her-accounts https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/trump-asked-russia-to-...
- defen 6y ago
  The emails under discussion were on Hilary Clinton's personal email server, and had been deleted. So the two questions you should ask are: 1) How would a hack, initiated after Trump's statement, find those emails - even in principle? 2) Even if we posit that such a hack was requested, how does that transmute into a request to "hack the Democrats"?
  - jgwil2 6y ago
    1) You really think Trump understands that? 2) It's a direct request to hack the Democratic presidential candidate and party standard bearer.
    - defen 6y ago
      > 2) It's a direct request to hack the Democratic presidential candidate and party standard bearer. So if someone were to hack Trump's emails, do you think it would be an accurate statement to say that they "hacked the Republicans"?
      - nl 6y ago
        While he was running for president as the candidate of the Republican party? Yes of course! Does your argument really come down to trying to parse a difference between Hillary Clinton and the Democratic party? I'd note the "hack the Democrats" was the OPs characterisation of what happened. If you'd prefer to claim that Trump asked Russia to hack Hillary Clinton I'm not going to try to argue that point.
        defen 6y ago
        I think "Trump asked the Russians to find Hillary Clinton's emails" is entirely uncontroversial. Saying he asked the Russians to "hack" the "Democrats" involves two inferences and seems like a statement designed to maximize discord. The Russians are not in Donald Trump's chain of command, there are other ways to find her emails than hacking, and Hillary Clinton is not "the Democrats". This will be my last post on the topic because it reminds of the "blue dress/green dress" thing someone posted way up thread. I'm sure you're posting in good faith, and I assure you I am too, but it is just not at all obvious to me why someone would say "Donald Trump asked the Russians to hack the Democrats" instead of "Donald Trump asked the Russians to find Hillary Clinton's emails".