4 ms·

Internet Entrepreneurs Are Like Professional Athletes, They Peak Around 25

20 points by e1ven 16y ago

ojbyrne 16y ago
From wikipedia: "J. Michael Arrington (born March 13, 1970 in Orange, California)" Is techcrunch not an internet company? Furthermore, the story here is some anonymous VC has volunteered that this is a "data-driven observation" and well, we have a sports analogy to go with it. There's plenty of studies not done by people who profit from promulgating the hype around young entrepreneurs. Show us the data, 41 year old dude.
- lachyg 16y ago
  I'd argue TechCrunch is a blog, rather than a consumer startup (after all, it started with Michael Arrington alone -- and grew from there).
  - ojbyrne 16y ago
    That seems like a dubious distinction, given gawker and other blog networks. I find it hard to find a clear difference between consumer internet products and blog networks. Facebook is the obvious exception, but even youtube almost feels like it started out as a blog.
michaelpinto 16y ago
But Arrington founded TechCrunch at age 35 — or doesn't he count?
- ojbyrne 16y ago
  The article allows for exceptions, and presumably it fits well into his world vision to think he is exceptional.
- phirephly 16y ago
  Ohhh... you want to know about the age bias for the actually successful startups, and not just the age bias of having enough life flexibility to go off on some 80%-baked adventure...
karzeem 16y ago
The YC data point probably has a sample bias. I'd expect that young people apply in disproportionately large numbers.
- laujen 16y ago
  They have to. How many people over 30 are willing to quit their family and community for 3 months to go live, eat and breath YC? I would love to be in a YC environment. The people you'd meet and the experience would be unbelievable. But I'm 37, have two young kids and a wife, and that "start-up" needs my attention, too.
lawnchair_larry 16y ago
The reason that YC funds more younger people is because the amount offered is not really enough for anyone to live on (especially in the bay area). Things are different now with Yuri offering 150k, but that is a recent change. If you are a kid right out of school, or have your parents basement to fall back on if you go broke, you haven't lost much.
ra 16y ago
link bait
pg 16y ago
Although this article says "last year Y Combinator said the average age of their founders is under 25," in the interview it links to, I say the average age is 26: MA: What’s the average age of investment? RC: I don’t know. It’s 25 and under. PG: Ours is 26 — yours have to be older. I'm not sure what the median is now. We haven't tried to calculate it for a while.
- lawnchair_larry 16y ago
  You make it sound like the median age is trivia at best, contrary to Arrington's suggestion that it is part of your "data driven" strategy.
  - pg 16y ago
    We don't have a data-driven strategy. I wish we did, but at the moment it's anecdotal evidence driven.
pstack 16y ago
Because young entrepreneurs are more creative and imaginative, and are willing put 100% of their lives into their startups, he said. “It’s not a guess, this is a data driven observation,” says the VC. The article is unclear as to whether this applies to startups seeking venture capital or all startups, in general. It also states that it's not a matter of opinion, but data-driven fact. If I'm not reaching out to a VC or engaging with a VC in any way whatsoever, what data is he going to have on me? Isn't he only going to have access to data about startups that are reaching out for capital? I'm in my thirties and I know that very few startups actually need millions of dollars. I still haven't figured out the justification for such ridiculously huge investments and expenses in most internet startups. Anyway, I digress. Being in my thirties, what I need are ambitious partners who can fill in the tech or business gaps I personally have as well as inspire, invigorate, stir ideas and share in the glory and the gloom. What I don't need are millions of dollars to get started. Or even hundreds of thousands. Whatever I need, I can almost assuredly take care of on my own (and with partners, our own). I suppose that one reason I don't need this is that I'm not just a year or two out of college and $200k in debt from my education. I'll never reach out to a VC and he'll never know of me, unless he comes sniffing around. By the way, it would seem that investing in someone younger is a lot wiser, because you'll get a lot more potential years of return if you're investing in "people" and not "product". Why invest with a stubborn middle aged guy who won't put up with your shit? Come on, honey! Sign on the dotted line and we'll make you a rock and roll star! Anyway, this all seems like a lot of navel-gazing. I could sit around arguing if someone is too old to do something all day, but I'd rather go prove it.
geuis 16y ago
Man, I really hope that isn't true. Or if it is, that it doesn't affect angels and VC's that funding new companies based on someone's age. I'm 31 but feel like I'm 20.
- deleted 16y ago
  [deleted]
freshhawk 16y ago
I might be missing something, but this seems so obvious it's almost tautological. He's limiting his discussion to startups in the "consumer internet" arena and speaking from the perspective of a VC. So you need hype, quick movement and you don't expect the company to be around in a few years (unless it's acquired by another company, probably not run by 25 year olds). Young people are going to be more in touch with what's fashionable or about to be fashionable in order to get hype. They're inexperienced so they'll work crazy hours for no money for the promise of a lottery ticket. This market is not really dependent on quality engineering, since the code won't be around very long to be maintained and downtime or data loss is accepted by most users (who probably aren't paying for the service anyway). And I'm not trying to bad mouth the sector either, it's a great proving ground for new ideas and we've gotten fantastic stuff out of it. So the point is that in a business sector where it's in the investors best interest for the founders to be young, most of the founders are young? In the financial industry this would be phrased differently: "The consumer internet market is highly tolerant of all the faults of young, inexperienced and easily exploited workers while also being easily influenced by the least expensive marketing on the planet" I don't think that way of framing the exact same point would make it on techcrunch though.
fingerprinter 16y ago
Oh man, where to begin... #1 This is one of those self validating ideas from VCs. VCs, especially those in 2011, actually prey on the young and inexperienced, those who don't have enough experience to know bad deals when they see them. Older entrepreneurs presumably have more experience and would be a tougher nut to crack. Older entrepreneurs are also likely to put much more capital in the startup themselves, therefore, needing less from Angels and VCs. #2 The idea that someone intellectually or creatively peaks, especially at such a young age, is also rather absurd. Again, experience is a HUGE component of both of those and someone with more experience, has seen the past couple of bubbles knows what is coming and what to expect, how to read the tea-leaves and can navigate better. I remember in 2009 when the GFC was starting and the market was crashing for 2 weeks a boss of mine said something that will stick with me for as long as I live (BTW...he was a Kleiner Perkins CEO at the startup I was at and my direct boss...mid-50s. He was also a VC in a previous life as well as running the largest enterprise software shop in Europe). He said "I've made and lost millions of dollars several times in my career. There is always opportunity even if they sledding gets harder. The successful people are the ones that are calm when the waters get rough, not when they are still." He was an amazing person and an amazing CEO. I've personally noticed it is much easier to be calm when I can honestly say "I've seen this before". #3 Something that was not mentioned in the article is the notion that professional athletes often say that they physically start to deteriorate around age 30 but mentally peak around 32-40. They know the game better, they've see the schemes, the defenses/offenses, they can recognize the patterns better. Put the brain of a 40 year old John Elway into the body of a 25 year old John Elway and that guy wins 10 straight superbowls. I've started 5 companies, had 4 failures and one sorta success. I'm working on my next one now. I WISH I could go back and do so many things differently in those first two based on what I know now. However, I can't, but I do have the opportunity to go further in this next venture. And, I have the added benefit of several hundred thousand dollars in personal capital to invest as well as a loving spouse to support the family needs. Yes, I'm getting older, but that doesn't make me a worse programmer unless I let it. Would I be willing to sell myself to a VC right now? Not unless I'm getting a KP type VC (connections) or something else in return (not just money). For anyone interested, read Felix Dennis' book called 'How to Get Rich' on not letting go of even a single % if you can help it. Incidently this is why YC will have younger founders; the younger crowd simply cannot self fund as well as the older entrepreneurs. And younger founders need the advice more....though admittedly, all of us could use more connections ;) EDIT: I thought about this for a bit more and I guess I would sum it up thusly: "25 is when internet entrepreneurs peak for VCs to make money off of them...after that is declining returns". I HIGHLY doubt that the internet entrepreneur peaks at 25, just the VCs ability to make % returns off of them.
mmcconnell1618 16y ago
One shining counter example: Consumer backup company Carbonite. Watch Mixergy's interview with the founder. He's not anywhere close to 25 and is a serial entreprenuer. http://mixergy.com/david-friend-carbonite-interview/ http://mixergy.com/david-friend-carbonite-interview/

20 points by e1ven 16y ago

From wikipedia: "J. Michael Arrington (born March 13, 1970 in Orange, California)" Is techcrunch not an internet company? Furthermore, the story here is some anonymous VC has volunteered that this is a "data-driven observation" and well, we have a sports analogy to go with it. There's plenty of studies not done by people who profit from promulgating the hype around young entrepreneurs. Show us the data, 41 year old dude.

lachyg 16y ago
I'd argue TechCrunch is a blog, rather than a consumer startup (after all, it started with Michael Arrington alone -- and grew from there).
- ojbyrne 16y ago
  That seems like a dubious distinction, given gawker and other blog networks. I find it hard to find a clear difference between consumer internet products and blog networks. Facebook is the obvious exception, but even youtube almost feels like it started out as a blog.

michaelpinto 16y ago

But Arrington founded TechCrunch at age 35 — or doesn't he count?

ojbyrne 16y ago
The article allows for exceptions, and presumably it fits well into his world vision to think he is exceptional.
phirephly 16y ago
Ohhh... you want to know about the age bias for the actually successful startups, and not just the age bias of having enough life flexibility to go off on some 80%-baked adventure...

karzeem 16y ago

The YC data point probably has a sample bias. I'd expect that young people apply in disproportionately large numbers.

laujen 16y ago
They have to. How many people over 30 are willing to quit their family and community for 3 months to go live, eat and breath YC? I would love to be in a YC environment. The people you'd meet and the experience would be unbelievable. But I'm 37, have two young kids and a wife, and that "start-up" needs my attention, too.

lawnchair_larry 16y ago

The reason that YC funds more younger people is because the amount offered is not really enough for anyone to live on (especially in the bay area). Things are different now with Yuri offering 150k, but that is a recent change. If you are a kid right out of school, or have your parents basement to fall back on if you go broke, you haven't lost much.

ra 16y ago

link bait

pg 16y ago

Although this article says "last year Y Combinator said the average age of their founders is under 25," in the interview it links to, I say the average age is 26: MA: What’s the average age of investment? RC: I don’t know. It’s 25 and under. PG: Ours is 26 — yours have to be older. I'm not sure what the median is now. We haven't tried to calculate it for a while.

lawnchair_larry 16y ago
You make it sound like the median age is trivia at best, contrary to Arrington's suggestion that it is part of your "data driven" strategy.
- pg 16y ago
  We don't have a data-driven strategy. I wish we did, but at the moment it's anecdotal evidence driven.

pstack 16y ago

Because young entrepreneurs are more creative and imaginative, and are willing put 100% of their lives into their startups, he said. “It’s not a guess, this is a data driven observation,” says the VC. The article is unclear as to whether this applies to startups seeking venture capital or all startups, in general. It also states that it's not a matter of opinion, but data-driven fact. If I'm not reaching out to a VC or engaging with a VC in any way whatsoever, what data is he going to have on me? Isn't he only going to have access to data about startups that are reaching out for capital? I'm in my thirties and I know that very few startups actually need millions of dollars. I still haven't figured out the justification for such ridiculously huge investments and expenses in most internet startups. Anyway, I digress. Being in my thirties, what I need are ambitious partners who can fill in the tech or business gaps I personally have as well as inspire, invigorate, stir ideas and share in the glory and the gloom. What I don't need are millions of dollars to get started. Or even hundreds of thousands. Whatever I need, I can almost assuredly take care of on my own (and with partners, our own). I suppose that one reason I don't need this is that I'm not just a year or two out of college and $200k in debt from my education. I'll never reach out to a VC and he'll never know of me, unless he comes sniffing around. By the way, it would seem that investing in someone younger is a lot wiser, because you'll get a lot more potential years of return if you're investing in "people" and not "product". Why invest with a stubborn middle aged guy who won't put up with your shit? Come on, honey! Sign on the dotted line and we'll make you a rock and roll star! Anyway, this all seems like a lot of navel-gazing. I could sit around arguing if someone is too old to do something all day, but I'd rather go prove it.

geuis 16y ago

Man, I really hope that isn't true. Or if it is, that it doesn't affect angels and VC's that funding new companies based on someone's age. I'm 31 but feel like I'm 20.

deleted 16y ago
[deleted]

freshhawk 16y ago

I might be missing something, but this seems so obvious it's almost tautological. He's limiting his discussion to startups in the "consumer internet" arena and speaking from the perspective of a VC. So you need hype, quick movement and you don't expect the company to be around in a few years (unless it's acquired by another company, probably not run by 25 year olds). Young people are going to be more in touch with what's fashionable or about to be fashionable in order to get hype. They're inexperienced so they'll work crazy hours for no money for the promise of a lottery ticket. This market is not really dependent on quality engineering, since the code won't be around very long to be maintained and downtime or data loss is accepted by most users (who probably aren't paying for the service anyway). And I'm not trying to bad mouth the sector either, it's a great proving ground for new ideas and we've gotten fantastic stuff out of it. So the point is that in a business sector where it's in the investors best interest for the founders to be young, most of the founders are young? In the financial industry this would be phrased differently: "The consumer internet market is highly tolerant of all the faults of young, inexperienced and easily exploited workers while also being easily influenced by the least expensive marketing on the planet" I don't think that way of framing the exact same point would make it on techcrunch though.

fingerprinter 16y ago

Oh man, where to begin... #1 This is one of those self validating ideas from VCs. VCs, especially those in 2011, actually prey on the young and inexperienced, those who don't have enough experience to know bad deals when they see them. Older entrepreneurs presumably have more experience and would be a tougher nut to crack. Older entrepreneurs are also likely to put much more capital in the startup themselves, therefore, needing less from Angels and VCs. #2 The idea that someone intellectually or creatively peaks, especially at such a young age, is also rather absurd. Again, experience is a HUGE component of both of those and someone with more experience, has seen the past couple of bubbles knows what is coming and what to expect, how to read the tea-leaves and can navigate better. I remember in 2009 when the GFC was starting and the market was crashing for 2 weeks a boss of mine said something that will stick with me for as long as I live (BTW...he was a Kleiner Perkins CEO at the startup I was at and my direct boss...mid-50s. He was also a VC in a previous life as well as running the largest enterprise software shop in Europe). He said "I've made and lost millions of dollars several times in my career. There is always opportunity even if they sledding gets harder. The successful people are the ones that are calm when the waters get rough, not when they are still." He was an amazing person and an amazing CEO. I've personally noticed it is much easier to be calm when I can honestly say "I've seen this before". #3 Something that was not mentioned in the article is the notion that professional athletes often say that they physically start to deteriorate around age 30 but mentally peak around 32-40. They know the game better, they've see the schemes, the defenses/offenses, they can recognize the patterns better. Put the brain of a 40 year old John Elway into the body of a 25 year old John Elway and that guy wins 10 straight superbowls. I've started 5 companies, had 4 failures and one sorta success. I'm working on my next one now. I WISH I could go back and do so many things differently in those first two based on what I know now. However, I can't, but I do have the opportunity to go further in this next venture. And, I have the added benefit of several hundred thousand dollars in personal capital to invest as well as a loving spouse to support the family needs. Yes, I'm getting older, but that doesn't make me a worse programmer unless I let it. Would I be willing to sell myself to a VC right now? Not unless I'm getting a KP type VC (connections) or something else in return (not just money). For anyone interested, read Felix Dennis' book called 'How to Get Rich' on not letting go of even a single % if you can help it. Incidently this is why YC will have younger founders; the younger crowd simply cannot self fund as well as the older entrepreneurs. And younger founders need the advice more....though admittedly, all of us could use more connections ;) EDIT: I thought about this for a bit more and I guess I would sum it up thusly: "25 is when internet entrepreneurs peak for VCs to make money off of them...after that is declining returns". I HIGHLY doubt that the internet entrepreneur peaks at 25, just the VCs ability to make % returns off of them.

mmcconnell1618 16y ago

One shining counter example: Consumer backup company Carbonite. Watch Mixergy's interview with the founder. He's not anywhere close to 25 and is a serial entreprenuer. http://mixergy.com/david-friend-carbonite-interview/ http://mixergy.com/david-friend-carbonite-interview/