4 ms·

He did have tax cuts to the rich, which probably helped the stock market.

bendmorris 6y ago
At best, we're assigning a ton of credit to him based on a vague "probably." Lots of non-Trump factors influenced the stock market over the last four years.
docbrown 6y ago
I really hope these past eight months cement the idea in more peoples head that the stock market has little correlation to reality. It fluctuates based on personal sentiment from institutions and money managers. Political policies may drive the market to react in a certain way from time to time but the only real 'direct' effects come from whichever Fed Chair is appointed at the time.
- jeofken 6y ago
  A stock is a voting right in a company, which among other things can be used to vote for distributing dividends to stock owners. That is what gives it value to the purchases of the stock. It is purchased because the buyer expects to earn more from it than they paid, and that they likely can pass it on later. The value of stocks is certainly connected to real value, and it is one of humanity’s greatest inventions.
  - docbrown 6y ago
    Of course stocks have real tangible value or else we wouldn’t be able to buy and sell them. They’re not something that you barter with. However, the majority of Americans do not associate stocks with voting rights. Only a slim minority of Americans own stocks to begin with! Most laymen investors or readers believe that the stock market is an indication of how well our economy is doing — which it’s not. The value of the stock market, like you said, is based on the buyers expectations. Which is what I said: the market is controlled by institutions and money managers. Those are the majority of your buyers.
    - jeofken 6y ago
      I agree it’s sad how far this world is from perfection, and that so many don’t know about the benefits of owning capital. I wish I could convince people to spend only half of what they spend on weed and alcohol on buying stocks - it would be of great benefit to the masses. How can we show them the benefits?
      - dTal 6y ago
        You're talking past the point under discussion, to wit: >the stock market has little correlation to reality... It fluctuates based on personal sentiment from institutions and money managers >a slim minority of Americans own stocks to begin with... >most laymen investors or readers believe that the stock market is an indication of how well our economy is doing — which it’s not. And therefore an improved stock market does not equate to an improved 'economy', and therefore it is incorrect to credit Donald Trump with an improved economy purely because tax cuts to the rich may have bumped the stock market. What on Earth does your comment have to do with that?
    - dfilppi 6y ago
      A slim minority of Americans have a 401k?
      - docbrown 6y ago
        Barely half have some sort of 401k program and the average holding amount is only $40,000. Nothing to really gloat about. Earners of $100,000/year or more have 5x the amount in holdings as compared to those earning $99,000 or below. Only 14% of Americans are invested in individual stocks outside of a 401k program. 401k assets only amount to 17% of the total US retirement. None of these numbers tell a great story because Americans are not saving for retirement. If they are, they’re barely saving a years worth of their salary.
ksk 6y ago
I'm nowhere close to rich or a Trump voter, but I'm glad my 401k) went up when the stocks went up. The Dem's economic policies in recent years are stinkers. I don't like the idea of raising taxes and creating new money-pit departments and thinking the government can fix stuff like education at the federal level. The idea of mandating people to purchase a healthcare product was also abhorrent. I'd much sooner get behind something like a single payer/universal coverage and kill off the useless insurance industry.
- georgeplusplus 6y ago
  > I'd much sooner get behind something like a single payer/universal coverage and kill off the useless insurance industry. At least in Germany most people still have a private care insurance option because the free stuff doesn’t cover everything and it’s just as expensive as the USAs insurance so I don’t think the insurance industry will go away just because their is a single payer system.
  - dfilppi 6y ago
    Killing off industries is not what free societies do.
    - ksk 6y ago
      Nobody is asking the government to make sneakers. Universal access to healthcare is a human right, and insurance as a product by its very nature - is non-universal - as it relies on denying access to make profit. The pre-existing conditions loophole in the current system means that you can purchase insurance one day before you get sick or need a major medical procedure and a private company is mandated by the government to pay up. The whole Obamacare plan is a clusterF*.
      - georgeplusplus 6y ago
        >> Universal access to healthcare is a human right. Healthcare comes from a provider. Would you say a provider has an unequivocal obligation to provide its service to the people?

At best, we're assigning a ton of credit to him based on a vague "probably." Lots of non-Trump factors influenced the stock market over the last four years.

docbrown 6y ago

I really hope these past eight months cement the idea in more peoples head that the stock market has little correlation to reality. It fluctuates based on personal sentiment from institutions and money managers. Political policies may drive the market to react in a certain way from time to time but the only real 'direct' effects come from whichever Fed Chair is appointed at the time.

jeofken 6y ago
A stock is a voting right in a company, which among other things can be used to vote for distributing dividends to stock owners. That is what gives it value to the purchases of the stock. It is purchased because the buyer expects to earn more from it than they paid, and that they likely can pass it on later. The value of stocks is certainly connected to real value, and it is one of humanity’s greatest inventions.
- docbrown 6y ago
  Of course stocks have real tangible value or else we wouldn’t be able to buy and sell them. They’re not something that you barter with. However, the majority of Americans do not associate stocks with voting rights. Only a slim minority of Americans own stocks to begin with! Most laymen investors or readers believe that the stock market is an indication of how well our economy is doing — which it’s not. The value of the stock market, like you said, is based on the buyers expectations. Which is what I said: the market is controlled by institutions and money managers. Those are the majority of your buyers.
  - jeofken 6y ago
    I agree it’s sad how far this world is from perfection, and that so many don’t know about the benefits of owning capital. I wish I could convince people to spend only half of what they spend on weed and alcohol on buying stocks - it would be of great benefit to the masses. How can we show them the benefits?
    - dTal 6y ago
      You're talking past the point under discussion, to wit: >the stock market has little correlation to reality... It fluctuates based on personal sentiment from institutions and money managers >a slim minority of Americans own stocks to begin with... >most laymen investors or readers believe that the stock market is an indication of how well our economy is doing — which it’s not. And therefore an improved stock market does not equate to an improved 'economy', and therefore it is incorrect to credit Donald Trump with an improved economy purely because tax cuts to the rich may have bumped the stock market. What on Earth does your comment have to do with that?
  - dfilppi 6y ago
    A slim minority of Americans have a 401k?
    - docbrown 6y ago
      Barely half have some sort of 401k program and the average holding amount is only $40,000. Nothing to really gloat about. Earners of $100,000/year or more have 5x the amount in holdings as compared to those earning $99,000 or below. Only 14% of Americans are invested in individual stocks outside of a 401k program. 401k assets only amount to 17% of the total US retirement. None of these numbers tell a great story because Americans are not saving for retirement. If they are, they’re barely saving a years worth of their salary.

ksk 6y ago

I'm nowhere close to rich or a Trump voter, but I'm glad my 401k) went up when the stocks went up. The Dem's economic policies in recent years are stinkers. I don't like the idea of raising taxes and creating new money-pit departments and thinking the government can fix stuff like education at the federal level. The idea of mandating people to purchase a healthcare product was also abhorrent. I'd much sooner get behind something like a single payer/universal coverage and kill off the useless insurance industry.

georgeplusplus 6y ago
> I'd much sooner get behind something like a single payer/universal coverage and kill off the useless insurance industry. At least in Germany most people still have a private care insurance option because the free stuff doesn’t cover everything and it’s just as expensive as the USAs insurance so I don’t think the insurance industry will go away just because their is a single payer system.
- dfilppi 6y ago
  Killing off industries is not what free societies do.
  - ksk 6y ago
    Nobody is asking the government to make sneakers. Universal access to healthcare is a human right, and insurance as a product by its very nature - is non-universal - as it relies on denying access to make profit. The pre-existing conditions loophole in the current system means that you can purchase insurance one day before you get sick or need a major medical procedure and a private company is mandated by the government to pay up. The whole Obamacare plan is a clusterF*.
    - georgeplusplus 6y ago
      >> Universal access to healthcare is a human right. Healthcare comes from a provider. Would you say a provider has an unequivocal obligation to provide its service to the people?