4 ms·

I personally find it hard to look at the right as anything but poison. I can disagree with you on economic ideologies, I can disagree with you on military spen

I personally find it hard to look at the right as anything but poison. I can disagree with you on economic ideologies, I can disagree with you on military spending, how to treat the drug epidemic, how to solve the incarceration problem, etc. However when one side literally empowers those that executed my family in WW2, it is no longer a disagreement, but a fight for my life.

kortilla 6y ago
Did the Jews kill your family in WW2? Because Trump spent a lot of time pissing off Germany and cuddling up with Israel.
- 0xB31B1B 6y ago
  wow man, theres a lot tied up in here. First of all, "the jews" and "israelis" aren't the same thing. In fact, the nazis killed basically zero Israelis in the holocaust. Second of all, the modern state of Isreal under Bibi is essentially an right wing Jewish ethnostate that oppresses the Palestinian minority, and the majority of American Jews do not support the current Israeli government.
  - njanirudh 6y ago
    What the hell are you talking about. Israel was created after ww2 just for the jews mainly affected by the wars
    - 0xB31B1B 6y ago
      ...yes. How could you execute someone from a country that didn't exist yet? To be more clear, the Jewish ethnic identity and the Israeli national identity aren't the same identity, and while there is overlap conflating them isn't insightful. OP was conflating them.
  - kortilla 6y ago
    Lol, well it’s hard to take you seriously when the comment I replied to said that the right was literally empowering the same people that killed his family members. If Israelites don’t qualify as Jews then the alt-right certainly don’t come close to Nazis.
Thorentis 6y ago
I don't know of any legislation introduced by any right wing government anywhere in the world, that literally empowers Nazis. I'm sorry that you feel like you're fighting for your life, but I'd be interested to know which country you live in that you fear for your safety. Surely, unlike during WW2, we have enough freedom of movement that you can leave a place where genocide could occur at any moment?
- regularfry 6y ago
  I suspect that you may already be aware that one does not need explicit government legislation to empower. Also, "if you fear for your life because of your ethnicity, you should leave" literally supports ethnic cleansing. Healthy societies view that as outside the bounds of legitimate political discourse.
  - TheAdamAndChe 6y ago
    Communism has killed millions around the world, yet it's ideology is growing on the left as well. That's part of the problem. There's such focus by the left on Nazis and by the right on Communists that the overall capacity to form a consensus and negotiate between the two groups is significantly hindered. The majority of both sides is not extremist, but ignoring each other is amplifying those extreme groups.
    - amanaplanacanal 6y ago
      I won’t say there are no communists on the left, but they are very few in number. Even most people that call themselves “socialist” really mean something more like capitalist with a string safety net. Any communists in the left are a threat to exactly nobody right now. They don’t really have many opportunities to forcefully take central control of the means of production. Unfortunately Nazis can do their work retail, they don’t need to take over government to do real harm individually.
    - regularfry 6y ago
      The difference being, of course, that the left hasn't been in power for four years. One side of this discourse is based on projection and conjecture, the other on observable behaviour. I think that's one reason why I'm not seeing a huge appetite for finding the middle ground in some parts of the left: they need to see that the reasonable folks on the right will repudiate and, where necessary, punish the extremists they see as having been encouraged and given a free rein, rather than continue to give them a political home. I think the core of it is that with the extremists on the right wing (whether that's swastika-flashing Actual Nazis or the radical theocrats) they've actually had power, whether in the form of boots-on-the-ground "very fine people" that the police turn a blind eye to or actual elected/appointed office, whereas "card-carrying communist" describes an uninfluential fringe of Democrats who won't now be able to achieve very much. Because that repudiation hasn't happened yet, some would view anyone who unflinchingly supported the Republicans over the last four years as complicit in the actual, demonstrated, real actions that the extremists performed as at least an enabler, and possibly worse. Until that gets fixed, and mainstream Republicans own that, I don't see them moving. Unfortunately, if McConnell is still in the driving seat in the Senate, form says we should expect political logjams, which won't help win anyone over either, and contrition isn't a trait I'd expect to magic itself into being purely on the basis of the presidential result.
boomboomsubban 6y ago
Though the obvious answer is your family is Jewish and the right empowered Nazis, the ambiguity of your statement means your family could have been Nazis and the right empowered Americans. There are like thirty correct choices in this macabre madlib.
jariel 6y ago
"when one side literally empowers those that executed my family in WW2, it is no longer a disagreement, but a fight for my life." Oddly, Trump is the most staunchly Zionist / Pro-Jewish President in American history (of course, all for his own benefit, I don't think he actually cares about any of it.) Literally his daughter, and most trusted advisor converted to Judaism. Paradoxically, it's now the 'global left', particularly in Europe who have faced real and serious problems of anti-semitism. In the UK, the Labour Party has had to eject several members for anti-semitic views (not just anti-Israel) and had to embark on programs to remedy the situation. "In October 2020, the UK's human rights watchdog found Labour to be "responsible for unlawful acts of harassment and discrimination"." [1] From the BBC no less! Most of my childhood friends grew up behind the Iron Curtain (Ukraine, Poland, Czech) or in Communist nations like Vietnam, Cambodia, China. Many family members murdered, starved. My Uncle fled with his mother through a forest across the border, chased by soldiers to escape. Many Serbian/Croatian friends who's parents lived through a very special kind of hell. Perhaps you can ask one of your workmates from Hong Kong what he thinks about 'Socialism With Chinese Characteristics'? [2] Please don't let us assume that one person's history or clan's mortal enemies represent the 'big picture' of anything. Trump is a 'thuggish businessman with authoritarian tendencies' - not actually an ideologue. The extreme views on either side are toxic and have quit a history of mass murder. If we want to compare 'Deaths Caused by Stalin/Mao vs. Hitler' that would be a futile effort I think. Mitt Romney and Barack Obama are both fairly good representations of either side and they're both fine men, if you're having trouble grasping why most people would be ok with that statement, maybe spend some time in another part of the country (Utah?) and make some friends there. [1] In October 2020, the UK's human rights watchdog found Labour to be "responsible for unlawful acts of harassment and discrimination". [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialism_with_Chinese_characteristics https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialism_with_Chinese_charact...
- cmurf 6y ago
  Quite a lot of American liberals think Trump conned his supporters. Promised them factory jobs, didn't deliver, etc. It should be considered the other way around, that the populists saw him as a narcissist who would bully their enemies for the mere simple favor of adoration. Who was being conned?
lawnchair_larry 6y ago
Neither side empowers anyone who executed your family WW2. Where on earth did you get such a delusion? Are you trying to turn the “alternative facts” thing around? What a completely insane thing to suggest.

kortilla 6y ago

Did the Jews kill your family in WW2? Because Trump spent a lot of time pissing off Germany and cuddling up with Israel.

0xB31B1B 6y ago
wow man, theres a lot tied up in here. First of all, "the jews" and "israelis" aren't the same thing. In fact, the nazis killed basically zero Israelis in the holocaust. Second of all, the modern state of Isreal under Bibi is essentially an right wing Jewish ethnostate that oppresses the Palestinian minority, and the majority of American Jews do not support the current Israeli government.
- njanirudh 6y ago
  What the hell are you talking about. Israel was created after ww2 just for the jews mainly affected by the wars
  - 0xB31B1B 6y ago
    ...yes. How could you execute someone from a country that didn't exist yet? To be more clear, the Jewish ethnic identity and the Israeli national identity aren't the same identity, and while there is overlap conflating them isn't insightful. OP was conflating them.
- kortilla 6y ago
  Lol, well it’s hard to take you seriously when the comment I replied to said that the right was literally empowering the same people that killed his family members. If Israelites don’t qualify as Jews then the alt-right certainly don’t come close to Nazis.

Thorentis 6y ago

I don't know of any legislation introduced by any right wing government anywhere in the world, that literally empowers Nazis. I'm sorry that you feel like you're fighting for your life, but I'd be interested to know which country you live in that you fear for your safety. Surely, unlike during WW2, we have enough freedom of movement that you can leave a place where genocide could occur at any moment?

regularfry 6y ago
I suspect that you may already be aware that one does not need explicit government legislation to empower. Also, "if you fear for your life because of your ethnicity, you should leave" literally supports ethnic cleansing. Healthy societies view that as outside the bounds of legitimate political discourse.
- TheAdamAndChe 6y ago
  Communism has killed millions around the world, yet it's ideology is growing on the left as well. That's part of the problem. There's such focus by the left on Nazis and by the right on Communists that the overall capacity to form a consensus and negotiate between the two groups is significantly hindered. The majority of both sides is not extremist, but ignoring each other is amplifying those extreme groups.
  - amanaplanacanal 6y ago
    I won’t say there are no communists on the left, but they are very few in number. Even most people that call themselves “socialist” really mean something more like capitalist with a string safety net. Any communists in the left are a threat to exactly nobody right now. They don’t really have many opportunities to forcefully take central control of the means of production. Unfortunately Nazis can do their work retail, they don’t need to take over government to do real harm individually.
  - regularfry 6y ago
    The difference being, of course, that the left hasn't been in power for four years. One side of this discourse is based on projection and conjecture, the other on observable behaviour. I think that's one reason why I'm not seeing a huge appetite for finding the middle ground in some parts of the left: they need to see that the reasonable folks on the right will repudiate and, where necessary, punish the extremists they see as having been encouraged and given a free rein, rather than continue to give them a political home. I think the core of it is that with the extremists on the right wing (whether that's swastika-flashing Actual Nazis or the radical theocrats) they've actually had power, whether in the form of boots-on-the-ground "very fine people" that the police turn a blind eye to or actual elected/appointed office, whereas "card-carrying communist" describes an uninfluential fringe of Democrats who won't now be able to achieve very much. Because that repudiation hasn't happened yet, some would view anyone who unflinchingly supported the Republicans over the last four years as complicit in the actual, demonstrated, real actions that the extremists performed as at least an enabler, and possibly worse. Until that gets fixed, and mainstream Republicans own that, I don't see them moving. Unfortunately, if McConnell is still in the driving seat in the Senate, form says we should expect political logjams, which won't help win anyone over either, and contrition isn't a trait I'd expect to magic itself into being purely on the basis of the presidential result.

boomboomsubban 6y ago

Though the obvious answer is your family is Jewish and the right empowered Nazis, the ambiguity of your statement means your family could have been Nazis and the right empowered Americans. There are like thirty correct choices in this macabre madlib.

jariel 6y ago

"when one side literally empowers those that executed my family in WW2, it is no longer a disagreement, but a fight for my life." Oddly, Trump is the most staunchly Zionist / Pro-Jewish President in American history (of course, all for his own benefit, I don't think he actually cares about any of it.) Literally his daughter, and most trusted advisor converted to Judaism. Paradoxically, it's now the 'global left', particularly in Europe who have faced real and serious problems of anti-semitism. In the UK, the Labour Party has had to eject several members for anti-semitic views (not just anti-Israel) and had to embark on programs to remedy the situation. "In October 2020, the UK's human rights watchdog found Labour to be "responsible for unlawful acts of harassment and discrimination"." [1] From the BBC no less! Most of my childhood friends grew up behind the Iron Curtain (Ukraine, Poland, Czech) or in Communist nations like Vietnam, Cambodia, China. Many family members murdered, starved. My Uncle fled with his mother through a forest across the border, chased by soldiers to escape. Many Serbian/Croatian friends who's parents lived through a very special kind of hell. Perhaps you can ask one of your workmates from Hong Kong what he thinks about 'Socialism With Chinese Characteristics'? [2] Please don't let us assume that one person's history or clan's mortal enemies represent the 'big picture' of anything. Trump is a 'thuggish businessman with authoritarian tendencies' - not actually an ideologue. The extreme views on either side are toxic and have quit a history of mass murder. If we want to compare 'Deaths Caused by Stalin/Mao vs. Hitler' that would be a futile effort I think. Mitt Romney and Barack Obama are both fairly good representations of either side and they're both fine men, if you're having trouble grasping why most people would be ok with that statement, maybe spend some time in another part of the country (Utah?) and make some friends there. [1] In October 2020, the UK's human rights watchdog found Labour to be "responsible for unlawful acts of harassment and discrimination". [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialism_with_Chinese_characteristics https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialism_with_Chinese_charact...

cmurf 6y ago
Quite a lot of American liberals think Trump conned his supporters. Promised them factory jobs, didn't deliver, etc. It should be considered the other way around, that the populists saw him as a narcissist who would bully their enemies for the mere simple favor of adoration. Who was being conned?

lawnchair_larry 6y ago

Neither side empowers anyone who executed your family WW2. Where on earth did you get such a delusion? Are you trying to turn the “alternative facts” thing around? What a completely insane thing to suggest.