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Destroying the open web? What are you talking about? Apple has a fantastic track record of making Safari a world class web browser for iOS. If Microsoft, Google

Destroying the open web? What are you talking about? Apple has a fantastic track record of making Safari a world class web browser for iOS. If Microsoft, Google, and others made these gaming offerings web apps, they’d likely work just fine.

hu3 6y ago
> Apple has a fantastic track record of making Safari a world class web browser From a quick glance it looks behind Firefox and Chrome on HTML/CSS/JS feature support. https://caniuse.com/?compare=firefox+84,chrome+89,safari+14&compareCats=all https://caniuse.com/?compare=firefox+84,chrome+89,safari+14&... And then there's Safari's broken autocomplete: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23646158 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23646158
ewindal 6y ago
That’s literally only because Amazon worked with them to introduce the needed features so they could launch Luna. Controller support was shoddy before iOS14, for example, so the web app approach wasn’t viable for xCloud or Stadia.
Anon1096 6y ago
I'm not sure how iOS can be considered a bastion for the web when it doesn't even have WebM support, which has been used across the web for years.
- otterley 6y ago
  And yet video streaming in Safari seems to work fine for users, and better still, it leverages the native hardware decoding capabilities to minimize battery usage.
  - hu3 6y ago
    WebM is widespread, royalty free media format that's hardware accelerated with zero cost license. The reason non-WebM stream services might work on Safari is because said service engineers implemented alternatives to it.
    - otterley 6y ago
      Right. My point is, the WebM solution was not needed to fulfill customer demand (just like Flash turned out not to be needed either). Customer demand isn't "give me WebM" - it's "give me high quality video in my mobile browser that doesn't kill my battery." There is wisdom sometimes in saying "no."
      - hu3 6y ago
        There is no wisdom in comparing WebM to flash. They couldn't be further appart in various aspects. For one, WebM is hardware accelerated whilst flash wasn't. There's also no wisdom in Safari preventing users from viewing a widespread royalty free media format. It simply causes frustration which is evidenced by the many frustrated customers in results for "safari stream not working "webm"" search.
        otterley 6y ago
        How do you know that the iPhone and iPad hardware have the IP core for performing hardware decoding of WebM formats? And how many such searches are actually taking place relative to the number of successful video views?
        hu3 6y ago
        They obviously don't have the decoder because Apple didn't implement them.
      - kelnos 6y ago
        I think you're ignoring other aspects of that kind of decision-making. Yes, the feature here is "power efficient, high quality mobile video streaming", but consider that content producers have to encode, store, and serve multiple different formats (plus more licensing fees for the encoders) in order to serve all their users. That's incredibly wasteful and causes people all sorts of headaches on the backend. Both Apple's stuff and WebM do indeed satisfy the user-facing feature requirements, but Apple could have just used WebM and saved content producers a lot of time and money (which often -- but admittedly not always -- translates into saving end-customers money as well). There's of course a balance to be maintained; if we single-source our streaming video codecs, that will dampen innovation in that space. But I'd hope there's a less wasteful middle ground than the place we're at now.

hu3 6y ago

> Apple has a fantastic track record of making Safari a world class web browser From a quick glance it looks behind Firefox and Chrome on HTML/CSS/JS feature support. https://caniuse.com/?compare=firefox+84,chrome+89,safari+14&compareCats=all https://caniuse.com/?compare=firefox+84,chrome+89,safari+14&... And then there's Safari's broken autocomplete: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23646158 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23646158

ewindal 6y ago

That’s literally only because Amazon worked with them to introduce the needed features so they could launch Luna. Controller support was shoddy before iOS14, for example, so the web app approach wasn’t viable for xCloud or Stadia.

Anon1096 6y ago

I'm not sure how iOS can be considered a bastion for the web when it doesn't even have WebM support, which has been used across the web for years.

otterley 6y ago
And yet video streaming in Safari seems to work fine for users, and better still, it leverages the native hardware decoding capabilities to minimize battery usage.
- hu3 6y ago
  WebM is widespread, royalty free media format that's hardware accelerated with zero cost license. The reason non-WebM stream services might work on Safari is because said service engineers implemented alternatives to it.
  - otterley 6y ago
    Right. My point is, the WebM solution was not needed to fulfill customer demand (just like Flash turned out not to be needed either). Customer demand isn't "give me WebM" - it's "give me high quality video in my mobile browser that doesn't kill my battery." There is wisdom sometimes in saying "no."
    - hu3 6y ago
      There is no wisdom in comparing WebM to flash. They couldn't be further appart in various aspects. For one, WebM is hardware accelerated whilst flash wasn't. There's also no wisdom in Safari preventing users from viewing a widespread royalty free media format. It simply causes frustration which is evidenced by the many frustrated customers in results for "safari stream not working "webm"" search.
      - otterley 6y ago
        How do you know that the iPhone and iPad hardware have the IP core for performing hardware decoding of WebM formats? And how many such searches are actually taking place relative to the number of successful video views?
        hu3 6y ago
        They obviously don't have the decoder because Apple didn't implement them.
    - kelnos 6y ago
      I think you're ignoring other aspects of that kind of decision-making. Yes, the feature here is "power efficient, high quality mobile video streaming", but consider that content producers have to encode, store, and serve multiple different formats (plus more licensing fees for the encoders) in order to serve all their users. That's incredibly wasteful and causes people all sorts of headaches on the backend. Both Apple's stuff and WebM do indeed satisfy the user-facing feature requirements, but Apple could have just used WebM and saved content producers a lot of time and money (which often -- but admittedly not always -- translates into saving end-customers money as well). There's of course a balance to be maintained; if we single-source our streaming video codecs, that will dampen innovation in that space. But I'd hope there's a less wasteful middle ground than the place we're at now.