7 ms·

recent college grad here the conundrum is this. i spent my time learning the academics and theory of programming, design, and business. jobs want experience.

recent college grad here the conundrum is this. i spent my time learning the academics and theory of programming, design, and business. jobs want experience. i am an extremely fast learner, but cannot get a chance at a full time job after being successful at a paid internship for over a year. everyone is looking for experience, i feel like if you don't know Exactly what you are doing day one, then you can't get your foot in the door. yes, i have a website up, resume tuned, and a portfolio of what i have done. thank god for unemployment checks... =/

bartonfink 15y ago
Where are you located? I have a contracting client who's looking to bring someone on full-time, and I'm not in a position to leave my current full-time position.
- nicetryguy 15y ago
  New Jersey. NYC is an option. Or anywhere really, i can relocate.
  - bartonfink 15y ago
    Well, I wouldn't recommend relocating to Denver specifically for the position I know about. Denver has a lot to offer, and the job market out here is good, but I can't say I'd recommend this job as the reason to move out here. If you're interested in Denver or anything else, shoot me an e-mail. I can't answer right away (I'm in the hospital at the moment) but I'd be happy to help answer ?'s.
ianl 15y ago
Contribute to open source, and start your own projects. Show your passion for what you do.
- nicetryguy 15y ago
  i have made a few Flash games. Can do Flash (AS2/3/Flex). Have experience in PHP / MySQL , javascript / jQuery. Currently building an online game editor / creator (my startup yCombinator plan) i would be glad to contribute to an open source project, haven't found one that has really caught my eye, or that i feel i could add meaningful input to. i should search Github / Google Code a little harder, fire up Mercurial, and give it a shot
  - benologist 15y ago
    There's money to be made in Flash games if you're unaware of it - http://flashgamelicense.com http://flashgamelicense.com is a great place to sell the licensing rights etc. If you want more info on that drop me an email.
    - nicetryguy 15y ago
      Thats cool. i was waiting for the AIR complier to get a bit faster / hardware accelerated on Android. I will check this out. Thank you
      - benologist 15y ago
        No worries. Let me know if you have questions, or just hit up the FGL guys if you sign up - they actually just put a nice big "Ask FGL" button on the forums the other day.
  - scorchin 15y ago
    Sounds like you're about to invest heavily in a web-based company. The main application that customers will see your product through is a web browser. You can easily write code for, and contribute to, these browsers. Whether it's for the rendering engines (gecko, webkit) or their open-source browser counterparts (firefox, chrome). Get involved!
- greengrime 15y ago
  Yeah, sure -- in theory. In practice, most people don't care. I can't tell you the number of times I've had an interviewer come into the room and clearly state that they haven't even read my resume yet (so excuse them if they take a minute to look at it first), much less looked up my projects or my website. This has happened everywhere, from tiny startups and Google/Microsoft/Facebook to banks and contract positions. Even when I've worked on projects related to the company (e.g., Twitter and Facebook apps when I interviewed at them), the interviewers had no clue (and I mentioned them quite prominently on my cover letter/resume/site). They don't look them up afterwards, either (using Google Analytics, I can tell whether they've visited). There have been a couple times when the interviewer has looked up and liked my projects, and we've had fun discussing them, but this has been quite rare. So unless you're directly using your projects to market yourself (i.e., you're purposely using them to network, rather than just doing them for fun and "passion"), I find this advice rather naive. But maybe I'm just Doing It Wrong, and YMMV.
  - alnayyir 15y ago
    There's clearly something stymieing you here, and you're the common denominator. We're not psychic, if you aren't upfront with your lack of social skills, your potential to be dunning-krugering yourself, or your unwillingness to write code on your own time for the sake of it, we can't do much for you. I had a rough start to my career (I have no degree and spent the latter half of my senior year of HS trying to avoid getting slapped with a felony charge), but I still managed to make it because when it came down to it, I enjoy programming. I enjoy programming so much that regardless of what happens in my career, I will code. I will code hungry, tired, or homeless. I will code at night, in the morning, and in the afternoon. Getting paid to code is a plus, but not the point. This attitude showed, and I was eventually given a shot. Where's your code? Why do you want to be in this industry? Good luck sorting yourself out. The early years are usually rough. I'm going to go get some night riding in. 2nd edit before I go: You shouldn't give a fuck if anybody, including an interviewer, sees your code. One of the quirkiest but most interesting programmers I've ever known is a 50-something year old that has worked as a line cook his whole life (other than a brief stint in the military). No formal education. Rough around the edges, maybe 5 people in the whole world have seen his code, and he's probably better at programming than you are... ...because he codes. His latest project? A pseudo-stack machine JIT runtime thingamajobber. The man amazes and amuses me regularly.
zaidf 15y ago
Really if you can write code that works, I'm not sure why you are having issues finding work. I can understand if you can't find enough to fill up your 40 hour week at the beginning but you should not have so much difficulty finding contract work. One hack to get around the experience problem is to charge a lower hourly rate and be more compromising about payment terms. Instead of requesting 50% upfront ask for a smaller amount and remainder at project completion. Having said that, if you sense the client will have trouble paying you tread carefully. I'm sure there is a whole philosophy that lowering your hourly rate is precisely what you should not do. There is a time and place when you should follow that. But suffice to day that if you are just looking to get the ball rolling and earn some cash programming, there are enough price sensitive clients. I would also follow themadvice of working on open source projects. That way within a few months at most you should be able to say you have decen experience developing your average web app. I'm a recent graduate making a half decent income doing contract work. But I've been freelancing since high school as a dev. On the otherhand, I have no formal degree in CS. You have a better shot at getting a job at google than me.
- nicetryguy 15y ago
  i would like to talk to you more about freelancing, as you have experience doing such. i have the grand college experience sitting behind a desk taking notes, nodding my head, and cramming for exams. Which in turn stopped me from building more projects. will PM you my email.
linuxhansl 15y ago
We routinely hire college grads. Primarily we look for smart people and not necessarily for people who have done exactly what we need. (Bay Area)
- shii 15y ago
  While this is helpful to a degree, visiting your profile shows no contact info, email, not even a site to visit. It'd be much more helpful to nicetryguy (and others) if you had some basic contact info like an email and/or a descrip of what you all do.
  - nicetryguy 15y ago
    fixed.
    - vellum 15y ago
      You should make an html version of your resume. A lot of people won't use a .docx version. Also, if you're going to send people to your personal site, you shouldn't use one that's under construction. You would be better off using flavors.me to make a temp one, then changing it once you've spruced up your site.
- nicetryguy 15y ago
  I am modest and easy going in a jocular manner: i am smart and willing to work. Relocation is an option, i am young and the world is anew. Will send personal info if you give me an email. What do you do? What are you looking for? Hows your Joel test?
modeless 15y ago
Google interviews should be perfect for you then. Experience hardly matters; it's all CS theory and problem solving.

bartonfink 15y ago

Where are you located? I have a contracting client who's looking to bring someone on full-time, and I'm not in a position to leave my current full-time position.

nicetryguy 15y ago
New Jersey. NYC is an option. Or anywhere really, i can relocate.
- bartonfink 15y ago
  Well, I wouldn't recommend relocating to Denver specifically for the position I know about. Denver has a lot to offer, and the job market out here is good, but I can't say I'd recommend this job as the reason to move out here. If you're interested in Denver or anything else, shoot me an e-mail. I can't answer right away (I'm in the hospital at the moment) but I'd be happy to help answer ?'s.

ianl 15y ago

Contribute to open source, and start your own projects. Show your passion for what you do.

nicetryguy 15y ago
i have made a few Flash games. Can do Flash (AS2/3/Flex). Have experience in PHP / MySQL , javascript / jQuery. Currently building an online game editor / creator (my startup yCombinator plan) i would be glad to contribute to an open source project, haven't found one that has really caught my eye, or that i feel i could add meaningful input to. i should search Github / Google Code a little harder, fire up Mercurial, and give it a shot
- benologist 15y ago
  There's money to be made in Flash games if you're unaware of it - http://flashgamelicense.com http://flashgamelicense.com is a great place to sell the licensing rights etc. If you want more info on that drop me an email.
  - nicetryguy 15y ago
    Thats cool. i was waiting for the AIR complier to get a bit faster / hardware accelerated on Android. I will check this out. Thank you
    - benologist 15y ago
      No worries. Let me know if you have questions, or just hit up the FGL guys if you sign up - they actually just put a nice big "Ask FGL" button on the forums the other day.
- scorchin 15y ago
  Sounds like you're about to invest heavily in a web-based company. The main application that customers will see your product through is a web browser. You can easily write code for, and contribute to, these browsers. Whether it's for the rendering engines (gecko, webkit) or their open-source browser counterparts (firefox, chrome). Get involved!
greengrime 15y ago
Yeah, sure -- in theory. In practice, most people don't care. I can't tell you the number of times I've had an interviewer come into the room and clearly state that they haven't even read my resume yet (so excuse them if they take a minute to look at it first), much less looked up my projects or my website. This has happened everywhere, from tiny startups and Google/Microsoft/Facebook to banks and contract positions. Even when I've worked on projects related to the company (e.g., Twitter and Facebook apps when I interviewed at them), the interviewers had no clue (and I mentioned them quite prominently on my cover letter/resume/site). They don't look them up afterwards, either (using Google Analytics, I can tell whether they've visited). There have been a couple times when the interviewer has looked up and liked my projects, and we've had fun discussing them, but this has been quite rare. So unless you're directly using your projects to market yourself (i.e., you're purposely using them to network, rather than just doing them for fun and "passion"), I find this advice rather naive. But maybe I'm just Doing It Wrong, and YMMV.
- alnayyir 15y ago
  There's clearly something stymieing you here, and you're the common denominator. We're not psychic, if you aren't upfront with your lack of social skills, your potential to be dunning-krugering yourself, or your unwillingness to write code on your own time for the sake of it, we can't do much for you. I had a rough start to my career (I have no degree and spent the latter half of my senior year of HS trying to avoid getting slapped with a felony charge), but I still managed to make it because when it came down to it, I enjoy programming. I enjoy programming so much that regardless of what happens in my career, I will code. I will code hungry, tired, or homeless. I will code at night, in the morning, and in the afternoon. Getting paid to code is a plus, but not the point. This attitude showed, and I was eventually given a shot. Where's your code? Why do you want to be in this industry? Good luck sorting yourself out. The early years are usually rough. I'm going to go get some night riding in. 2nd edit before I go: You shouldn't give a fuck if anybody, including an interviewer, sees your code. One of the quirkiest but most interesting programmers I've ever known is a 50-something year old that has worked as a line cook his whole life (other than a brief stint in the military). No formal education. Rough around the edges, maybe 5 people in the whole world have seen his code, and he's probably better at programming than you are... ...because he codes. His latest project? A pseudo-stack machine JIT runtime thingamajobber. The man amazes and amuses me regularly.

zaidf 15y ago

Really if you can write code that works, I'm not sure why you are having issues finding work. I can understand if you can't find enough to fill up your 40 hour week at the beginning but you should not have so much difficulty finding contract work. One hack to get around the experience problem is to charge a lower hourly rate and be more compromising about payment terms. Instead of requesting 50% upfront ask for a smaller amount and remainder at project completion. Having said that, if you sense the client will have trouble paying you tread carefully. I'm sure there is a whole philosophy that lowering your hourly rate is precisely what you should not do. There is a time and place when you should follow that. But suffice to day that if you are just looking to get the ball rolling and earn some cash programming, there are enough price sensitive clients. I would also follow themadvice of working on open source projects. That way within a few months at most you should be able to say you have decen experience developing your average web app. I'm a recent graduate making a half decent income doing contract work. But I've been freelancing since high school as a dev. On the otherhand, I have no formal degree in CS. You have a better shot at getting a job at google than me.

nicetryguy 15y ago
i would like to talk to you more about freelancing, as you have experience doing such. i have the grand college experience sitting behind a desk taking notes, nodding my head, and cramming for exams. Which in turn stopped me from building more projects. will PM you my email.

linuxhansl 15y ago

We routinely hire college grads. Primarily we look for smart people and not necessarily for people who have done exactly what we need. (Bay Area)

shii 15y ago
While this is helpful to a degree, visiting your profile shows no contact info, email, not even a site to visit. It'd be much more helpful to nicetryguy (and others) if you had some basic contact info like an email and/or a descrip of what you all do.
- nicetryguy 15y ago
  fixed.
  - vellum 15y ago
    You should make an html version of your resume. A lot of people won't use a .docx version. Also, if you're going to send people to your personal site, you shouldn't use one that's under construction. You would be better off using flavors.me to make a temp one, then changing it once you've spruced up your site.
nicetryguy 15y ago
I am modest and easy going in a jocular manner: i am smart and willing to work. Relocation is an option, i am young and the world is anew. Will send personal info if you give me an email. What do you do? What are you looking for? Hows your Joel test?

modeless 15y ago

Google interviews should be perfect for you then. Experience hardly matters; it's all CS theory and problem solving.