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1) Observe that the country is divided 2) Make a divisive statement accusing the other side of creating division 3) Throw racism and identity politics into th

1) Observe that the country is divided 2) Make a divisive statement accusing the other side of creating division 3) Throw racism and identity politics into the mix, that always helps 4) Repeat as necessary "Trump Is Losing Ground With White Voters But Gaining Among Black And Hispanic Americans" https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/trump-is-losing-ground-with-white-voters-but-gaining-among-black-and-hispanic-americans/ https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/trump-is-losing-ground-...

arcticbull 6y ago
Yes he now has 8% of the African American vote up from 6%. It’s remarkable you can find 92-94% of such a large and diverse diaspora that agrees you’re a bad fit. The increase in the support levels among Latinx is definitely more substantial, and likely has to do with the fact that the right wing has been ginning up fear around “socialism” to a group historically seriously injured by it. (Bearing in mind of course that the definition of socialism which has caused harm in Latin America is the state owning the means of production, and there is absolutely unequivocally zero support for that among Democrats — who range from center-right to at most a flavor of social democrat).
- aww_dang 6y ago
  That's fine. People can hold different opinions. Accusing people who disagree of being racist isn't just divisive, it is nonsensical. Who are these voters racist against? The premise makes even less sense if you're calling out divisive rhetoric.
  - arcticbull 6y ago
    One thing that I found really interesting is the way right wing television is explaining to the public how Trump cannot possibly be racist because he has African-American voters. This is the same way you can’t be racist because if have a black friend. This cuts both ways as you point out. People vote for all sorts of reasons, and people are willing to overlook racism because they have higher priority issues. Just because the president is a racist doesn’t necessarily make you racist for voting for him. It just means you have things you consider more important. Having African American voters doesn’t make you somehow not a racist, and voting for a racist doesn’t necessarily make you one. That’s how far the American political system has fallen.
    - aww_dang 6y ago
      Having a white person who wears their compassion on their sleeve call you racist or 'not black' for a refusal to cosign their hatred of Trump takes the cake. Hard to get over that one. Mere indifference has become controversial.
      - arcticbull 6y ago
        Not a good look for sure. I’ll wait and judge him by what he does in the next four years though. That kind of ignorance is nothing compared to literally forcing migrant women to have hysterectomies along the southern border. That’s a different kind of racism. [1] [1] https://www.npr.org/2020/09/16/913398383/whistleblower-alleges-medical-neglect-questionable-hysterectomies-of-ice-detaine https://www.npr.org/2020/09/16/913398383/whistleblower-alleg...
- WalterBright 6y ago
  > the definition of socialism which has caused harm in Latin America is the state owning the means of production, and there is absolutely unequivocally zero support for that among Democrats A fundamental tenet of ownership is having control of it and the proceeds from it. It's not just the name on the masthead.
  - arcticbull 6y ago
    And once more literally no democrats count even a little bit as socialists. That notwithstanding it’s utterly disingenuous to equate social democrats with Maduro. The kind of “socialism” espoused by democrats is further right than substantially all of Europe, Canada, Australia and New Zealand. Far from failed, folks there enjoy a general higher standard of living than Americans.
    - WalterBright 6y ago
      > literally no democrats count even a little bit as socialists 1. taxation takes the proceeds from the property - the higher the taxes, the more socialist. 2. Rent control. 3. California specifies the gender makeup of boards of directors. 4. Single payer health care. There are lots more, these are just examples. You can argue that the benefits of such abrogation makes it worthwhile, but they are socialism. The more of them, the more socialist. > Far from failed, folks there enjoy a general higher standard of living than Americans. The US then shouldn't be such a popular destination for immigrants looking for opportunity.
      - arcticbull 6y ago
        With reference to the definition of socialism: “any of various economic and political theories advocating collective or governmental ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods” 1. taxation takes the proceeds from the property - the higher the taxes, the more socialist. Not a socialist issue, for instance Donald trump raised taxes by capping the SLPT deductions, and imo has nothing to do with the state owning the means of production. 2. Rent control. Not a federal or Democratic Party policy issue, just a stupid approach to control cost of living. The real answer is just supply and demand, and to permit building. This isn’t partisan it’s bad policy and has nothing to do with the means of production. 3. California specifies the gender makeup of boards of directors. That has nothing to do with the means of production and isn’t a federal issue. 4. Single payer health care. Not a left vs right issue IMO any more than a socialized fire department or police department are socialist. This is evident in the fact both democrats and republicans love Medicare which is literal socialized medicine for folks over 65. My personal opinion is that medical care does not fall under “means of production” and should instead fall under basic infrastructure which supports and facilitates the private ownership of the means of production. > The US then shouldn't be such a popular destination for immigrants looking for opportunity. This doesn’t prove or disprove anything. People often come to the US hoping they will do better than average. I suggested on average folks are better off elsewhere and your statement doesn’t prove or disprove that. Worse, immigration was basically wholesale suspended.

arcticbull 6y ago

Yes he now has 8% of the African American vote up from 6%. It’s remarkable you can find 92-94% of such a large and diverse diaspora that agrees you’re a bad fit. The increase in the support levels among Latinx is definitely more substantial, and likely has to do with the fact that the right wing has been ginning up fear around “socialism” to a group historically seriously injured by it. (Bearing in mind of course that the definition of socialism which has caused harm in Latin America is the state owning the means of production, and there is absolutely unequivocally zero support for that among Democrats — who range from center-right to at most a flavor of social democrat).

aww_dang 6y ago
That's fine. People can hold different opinions. Accusing people who disagree of being racist isn't just divisive, it is nonsensical. Who are these voters racist against? The premise makes even less sense if you're calling out divisive rhetoric.
- arcticbull 6y ago
  One thing that I found really interesting is the way right wing television is explaining to the public how Trump cannot possibly be racist because he has African-American voters. This is the same way you can’t be racist because if have a black friend. This cuts both ways as you point out. People vote for all sorts of reasons, and people are willing to overlook racism because they have higher priority issues. Just because the president is a racist doesn’t necessarily make you racist for voting for him. It just means you have things you consider more important. Having African American voters doesn’t make you somehow not a racist, and voting for a racist doesn’t necessarily make you one. That’s how far the American political system has fallen.
  - aww_dang 6y ago
    Having a white person who wears their compassion on their sleeve call you racist or 'not black' for a refusal to cosign their hatred of Trump takes the cake. Hard to get over that one. Mere indifference has become controversial.
    - arcticbull 6y ago
      Not a good look for sure. I’ll wait and judge him by what he does in the next four years though. That kind of ignorance is nothing compared to literally forcing migrant women to have hysterectomies along the southern border. That’s a different kind of racism. [1] [1] https://www.npr.org/2020/09/16/913398383/whistleblower-alleges-medical-neglect-questionable-hysterectomies-of-ice-detaine https://www.npr.org/2020/09/16/913398383/whistleblower-alleg...
WalterBright 6y ago
> the definition of socialism which has caused harm in Latin America is the state owning the means of production, and there is absolutely unequivocally zero support for that among Democrats A fundamental tenet of ownership is having control of it and the proceeds from it. It's not just the name on the masthead.
- arcticbull 6y ago
  And once more literally no democrats count even a little bit as socialists. That notwithstanding it’s utterly disingenuous to equate social democrats with Maduro. The kind of “socialism” espoused by democrats is further right than substantially all of Europe, Canada, Australia and New Zealand. Far from failed, folks there enjoy a general higher standard of living than Americans.
  - WalterBright 6y ago
    > literally no democrats count even a little bit as socialists 1. taxation takes the proceeds from the property - the higher the taxes, the more socialist. 2. Rent control. 3. California specifies the gender makeup of boards of directors. 4. Single payer health care. There are lots more, these are just examples. You can argue that the benefits of such abrogation makes it worthwhile, but they are socialism. The more of them, the more socialist. > Far from failed, folks there enjoy a general higher standard of living than Americans. The US then shouldn't be such a popular destination for immigrants looking for opportunity.
    - arcticbull 6y ago
      With reference to the definition of socialism: “any of various economic and political theories advocating collective or governmental ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods” 1. taxation takes the proceeds from the property - the higher the taxes, the more socialist. Not a socialist issue, for instance Donald trump raised taxes by capping the SLPT deductions, and imo has nothing to do with the state owning the means of production. 2. Rent control. Not a federal or Democratic Party policy issue, just a stupid approach to control cost of living. The real answer is just supply and demand, and to permit building. This isn’t partisan it’s bad policy and has nothing to do with the means of production. 3. California specifies the gender makeup of boards of directors. That has nothing to do with the means of production and isn’t a federal issue. 4. Single payer health care. Not a left vs right issue IMO any more than a socialized fire department or police department are socialist. This is evident in the fact both democrats and republicans love Medicare which is literal socialized medicine for folks over 65. My personal opinion is that medical care does not fall under “means of production” and should instead fall under basic infrastructure which supports and facilitates the private ownership of the means of production. > The US then shouldn't be such a popular destination for immigrants looking for opportunity. This doesn’t prove or disprove anything. People often come to the US hoping they will do better than average. I suggested on average folks are better off elsewhere and your statement doesn’t prove or disprove that. Worse, immigration was basically wholesale suspended.