7 ms·

> Is there really any common ground? Some policies, when detached from political partisanship, could be appreciated by voters on both sides. For instance, for

> Is there really any common ground? Some policies, when detached from political partisanship, could be appreciated by voters on both sides. For instance, for those who believe in human rights and social justice (a supposedly 'left' concern), there's good cause for opposition to China. In terms of jobs and national security, wresting some of China's high-tech manufacturing capability back within US borders would be a boon for employment across 'middle-America' (a supposedly 'right' concern). More importantly, I think both the concerns of human rights, and the employment of your fellow citizens, should not be a partisan issue. I think most people want the world to be a better place to live, with better human rights, and a wage. Allowing China to gain leverage on the world, despite a track record of human rights abuses, and building a trade deficit with them, isn't really in the general voters interest. And this is just one example. I'm sure there's more common ground if you look just at policy.

akiselev 6y ago
> More importantly, I think both the concerns of human rights, and the employment of your fellow citizens, should not be a partisan issue. McConnel has already demonstrated that he will make it a partisan issue by ramming through a Supreme Court justice and recessing the Senate without even giving the appearance of considering a second round of COVID relief. > And this is just one example. I'm sure there's more common ground if you look just at policy. It won't force bad faith actors to cooperate, regardless of any common ground between voters because they, as the GP said, won't hold their politicians to account. Acting as the opposition even when they're in power is built into the party at this point, as demonstrated by the President's many legislative failures starting with the ACA repeal. It's just wishful thinking and I'm hoping enough people are done with the feel good woowoo.
- h0l0cube 6y ago
  You've missed my point entirely. I'm not talking about one legislator, I'm talking about an entire nation. At the end of the day, the one leverage you and I have over our policy-maker overlords, is the vote. > It won't force bad faith actors to cooperate [..] as the GP said, won't hold their politicians to account. The only way you can hold this belief, is to also believe that voting behaviour doesn't change over time, and that you don't have a part to play in that. What else could motivate you to speak with such passion if it were only futile? > It's just wishful thinking and I'm hoping enough people are done with the feel good woowoo. You miss every shot you don't take. A platitude, maybe, but also a falsifiable proposition, which is clearly true. For instance, there's nothing magical about taking your vote to any of the independents with much better policies. Sure, their pitch for the white house is impossible, but they might make headway into the senate, and each % point that goes to an independent provides a signal to the established Red/Blue teams that maybe they should adopt some of those policies. Nothing magical about organising with like-minded people, creating and crowd-funding a lobby group. Or even taking part of one that suits your interests.
rmk 6y ago
There is bipartisan agreement that China needs to be confronted and contained. How it is accomplished may be debated, but that is tractable. There is almost no agreement on the rest of the agenda, though. Democrats and leftists want green initiatives and universal healthcare, which both have zero support from Republicans. The leftist wing of the Democratic Party will be emboldened by their successes this election and will hijack the agenda, forcing America to smack the new administration (and Congress) back into doing nothing by putting in Republicans during the midterms. Republicans have much more discipline as a party and will work to obstruct, because that's what wins them votes. Why should they cooperate with a party that spent the majority of the past four years trying to impeach a legitimately elected President? In fact, they might start a similar effort, because the saga of Biden's ne'er do well son Hunter has barely begun. Trump is not going away, neither is Steve Bannon. They have a lot more time on their hands to team up again, possibly bringing Donald Trump Jr. into the fold, to build a grassroots opposition campaign to stymie the Democrat agenda. Remember that Trump has already made the Republicans' long-sought wish of a Conservative Supreme Court (for almost a generation) a reality. He has also given the Republican party a good number of wins in the House (+5/6 for Republicans vs +1 for Democrats). So from their perspective, it may make sense to ride the Trump wave some more, because it has delivered for them.
- crooked-v 6y ago
  > hijack the agenda Please elaborate on what you perceive as 'hijacking the agenda'.
  - rmk 6y ago
    Biden is pretty centrist and is not willing to go for universal healthcare, whereas the Bernie side of the spectrum explicitly campaigned for this. That's one of the examples.
    - mhoad 6y ago
      A very clear majority of Americans support universal healthcare every time they are polled about it. This isn’t the radical agenda that you seem to be claiming it to be, it’s about bringing the US system to be closer in line with what every other first world nation has already had for decades. [1] https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2020/09/29/increasing-share-of-americans-favor-a-single-government-program-to-provide-health-care-coverage/%3Famp%3D1 https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2...

akiselev 6y ago

> More importantly, I think both the concerns of human rights, and the employment of your fellow citizens, should not be a partisan issue. McConnel has already demonstrated that he will make it a partisan issue by ramming through a Supreme Court justice and recessing the Senate without even giving the appearance of considering a second round of COVID relief. > And this is just one example. I'm sure there's more common ground if you look just at policy. It won't force bad faith actors to cooperate, regardless of any common ground between voters because they, as the GP said, won't hold their politicians to account. Acting as the opposition even when they're in power is built into the party at this point, as demonstrated by the President's many legislative failures starting with the ACA repeal. It's just wishful thinking and I'm hoping enough people are done with the feel good woowoo.

h0l0cube 6y ago
You've missed my point entirely. I'm not talking about one legislator, I'm talking about an entire nation. At the end of the day, the one leverage you and I have over our policy-maker overlords, is the vote. > It won't force bad faith actors to cooperate [..] as the GP said, won't hold their politicians to account. The only way you can hold this belief, is to also believe that voting behaviour doesn't change over time, and that you don't have a part to play in that. What else could motivate you to speak with such passion if it were only futile? > It's just wishful thinking and I'm hoping enough people are done with the feel good woowoo. You miss every shot you don't take. A platitude, maybe, but also a falsifiable proposition, which is clearly true. For instance, there's nothing magical about taking your vote to any of the independents with much better policies. Sure, their pitch for the white house is impossible, but they might make headway into the senate, and each % point that goes to an independent provides a signal to the established Red/Blue teams that maybe they should adopt some of those policies. Nothing magical about organising with like-minded people, creating and crowd-funding a lobby group. Or even taking part of one that suits your interests.

rmk 6y ago

There is bipartisan agreement that China needs to be confronted and contained. How it is accomplished may be debated, but that is tractable. There is almost no agreement on the rest of the agenda, though. Democrats and leftists want green initiatives and universal healthcare, which both have zero support from Republicans. The leftist wing of the Democratic Party will be emboldened by their successes this election and will hijack the agenda, forcing America to smack the new administration (and Congress) back into doing nothing by putting in Republicans during the midterms. Republicans have much more discipline as a party and will work to obstruct, because that's what wins them votes. Why should they cooperate with a party that spent the majority of the past four years trying to impeach a legitimately elected President? In fact, they might start a similar effort, because the saga of Biden's ne'er do well son Hunter has barely begun. Trump is not going away, neither is Steve Bannon. They have a lot more time on their hands to team up again, possibly bringing Donald Trump Jr. into the fold, to build a grassroots opposition campaign to stymie the Democrat agenda. Remember that Trump has already made the Republicans' long-sought wish of a Conservative Supreme Court (for almost a generation) a reality. He has also given the Republican party a good number of wins in the House (+5/6 for Republicans vs +1 for Democrats). So from their perspective, it may make sense to ride the Trump wave some more, because it has delivered for them.

crooked-v 6y ago
> hijack the agenda Please elaborate on what you perceive as 'hijacking the agenda'.
- rmk 6y ago
  Biden is pretty centrist and is not willing to go for universal healthcare, whereas the Bernie side of the spectrum explicitly campaigned for this. That's one of the examples.
  - mhoad 6y ago
    A very clear majority of Americans support universal healthcare every time they are polled about it. This isn’t the radical agenda that you seem to be claiming it to be, it’s about bringing the US system to be closer in line with what every other first world nation has already had for decades. [1] https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2020/09/29/increasing-share-of-americans-favor-a-single-government-program-to-provide-health-care-coverage/%3Famp%3D1 https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2...