4 ms·

disclaimer: I'm not American, but I'm from the UK which has similar issues on a smaller scale. The thing is, as a leftist I used to be able to have conversatio

disclaimer: I'm not American, but I'm from the UK which has similar issues on a smaller scale. The thing is, as a leftist I used to be able to have conversations with conservatives. We had different values, but a largely shared understanding of reality. That gave a common basis for contrast and discussion. Now, that's gone. My biased perception is that the worst of it started on the right: a ways back Fox started creating a bubble of alternative reality, and that's been hugely amplified with the arrival of social media. I started struggling to communicate in meaningful ways. More recently I've found myself fact checking my own community more often than I used to - I wonder if Trump has sent leftists crazy in the same way that Obama did the right ;-).

heavyset_go 6y ago
> Now, that's gone Check out r/Libertarian sometime. After it was radicalized by self-professed fascist moderators and turned into a pro-Trump meme board, the admin stepped in and installed a moderation team that spent time coming up with rules to prevent the subreddit from being overrun by authoritarians again. They added legitimate left-libertarian[1] moderators, and there are left-libertarians users that post there. I bring it up because it is the only conservative space I've seen that doesn't end up posting helicopter ride[2] memes at people they perceive to be even slightly to the left of them. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Left-libertarianism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Left-libertarianism [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_flights https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_flights
- AlisdairO 6y ago
  Thanks, I'll give it a look!
kzrdude 6y ago
It seems the "windows of acceptable opinions" have gotten narrower (acceptable in a given social clique); I think the reason is that our social medias are so open - we talk not directly to a few people we trust, but our outbursts are visible to a wide circle or even public. This leads to self-censorship.
- AlisdairO 6y ago
  I agree. In general I identify as very progressive (especially by US standards), but I hold some opinions that are somewhat outside of the leftist norm, and I'm more or less completely unwilling to discuss them online as I don't trust that I will be treated in good faith. The sad thing here is that I'm genuinely open to having my opinions changed, and have a history of changing my view in response to argument in the past. But can't have my view changed if I'm too scared to even have the discussion ;-).
  - donmcronald 6y ago
    Sometimes I think I’m the only person in Canada that wants a carbon tax and pipelines at the same time :-(
drak0n1c 6y ago
I'd say MSNBC was just as complicit as Fox over the decades. In 2009, they purposefully cropped video of the main protester outside an Obama town-hall meeting to only show his back and slung rifle, and then used the footage to immediately launch into a panel discussion positing that the primary motivation for the protests against Obama was racial animus. The protester was black. Here is the footage (paired with another incident of egregious misreporting in 1992): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fvBQDHqdCck https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fvBQDHqdCck
- butbutemails2 6y ago
  Whoa, that reminds me of the 2011 Obama speech in Alabama where it was misreported that Alabamans thought Obama drank Honest Tea (see video for better context) https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
- AlisdairO 6y ago
  I'm not going to tell you that there aren't issues on the other channels, but the sheer volume of manipulation on Fox is utterly overwhelming. Imperfect as it is I don't really think MSNBC compares.
  - core-questions 6y ago
    Just remember that it's always easier to see the manipulation and bias the your political opponents are doing to their own side, than the ones your own leaders are doing to you.

heavyset_go 6y ago

> Now, that's gone Check out r/Libertarian sometime. After it was radicalized by self-professed fascist moderators and turned into a pro-Trump meme board, the admin stepped in and installed a moderation team that spent time coming up with rules to prevent the subreddit from being overrun by authoritarians again. They added legitimate left-libertarian[1] moderators, and there are left-libertarians users that post there. I bring it up because it is the only conservative space I've seen that doesn't end up posting helicopter ride[2] memes at people they perceive to be even slightly to the left of them. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Left-libertarianism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Left-libertarianism [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_flights https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_flights

AlisdairO 6y ago
Thanks, I'll give it a look!

kzrdude 6y ago

It seems the "windows of acceptable opinions" have gotten narrower (acceptable in a given social clique); I think the reason is that our social medias are so open - we talk not directly to a few people we trust, but our outbursts are visible to a wide circle or even public. This leads to self-censorship.

AlisdairO 6y ago
I agree. In general I identify as very progressive (especially by US standards), but I hold some opinions that are somewhat outside of the leftist norm, and I'm more or less completely unwilling to discuss them online as I don't trust that I will be treated in good faith. The sad thing here is that I'm genuinely open to having my opinions changed, and have a history of changing my view in response to argument in the past. But can't have my view changed if I'm too scared to even have the discussion ;-).
- donmcronald 6y ago
  Sometimes I think I’m the only person in Canada that wants a carbon tax and pipelines at the same time :-(

drak0n1c 6y ago

I'd say MSNBC was just as complicit as Fox over the decades. In 2009, they purposefully cropped video of the main protester outside an Obama town-hall meeting to only show his back and slung rifle, and then used the footage to immediately launch into a panel discussion positing that the primary motivation for the protests against Obama was racial animus. The protester was black. Here is the footage (paired with another incident of egregious misreporting in 1992): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fvBQDHqdCck https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fvBQDHqdCck

butbutemails2 6y ago
Whoa, that reminds me of the 2011 Obama speech in Alabama where it was misreported that Alabamans thought Obama drank Honest Tea (see video for better context) https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
AlisdairO 6y ago
I'm not going to tell you that there aren't issues on the other channels, but the sheer volume of manipulation on Fox is utterly overwhelming. Imperfect as it is I don't really think MSNBC compares.
- core-questions 6y ago
  Just remember that it's always easier to see the manipulation and bias the your political opponents are doing to their own side, than the ones your own leaders are doing to you.