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It's weird that they specifically worked with Amazon to make their Luna game streaming service work as a PWA on iOS: “We worked with the Safari team to ensure

by gman83 6y ago

It's weird that they specifically worked with Amazon to make their Luna game streaming service work as a PWA on iOS: “We worked with the Safari team to ensure that some of the things that weren't there are there, and that allowed us to kind of get to where we are today,” Luna head of engineering and technology George Tsipolitis said. https://www.engadget.com/luna-amazon-cloud-gaming-interview-pwa-apple-173948922.html https://www.engadget.com/luna-amazon-cloud-gaming-interview-...

als0 6y ago
I don't think it's weird that the Safari team work with big developers. They want to make their mobile browser competitive with other browsers, particularly ones that support advanced features that enable cloud gaming.
jagged-chisel 6y ago
"Safari team" doesn't necessarily have the same motivations as "App Store review team." Apple, as a company, needs to play nice with the web.
- gfxgirl 6y ago
  lol. There's a reason Safari is called the new IE. So many features missing or buggy, not following standards.
  - zinekeller 6y ago
    Actually, most developers with an opinion on "new IE" says that Google Chrome is the new IE. There are cases of Firefox and Safari implementing features and Chrome-specific behavior that they won't endorse but are used by webistes (notably, unsurprisingly, Google's sites) [1, 2, 3]. Additionally, there are features that most have requested but are effectively being blocked by Google [3]. 1: https://hacks.mozilla.org/2020/04/twitter-direct-message-caching-and-firefox/ https://hacks.mozilla.org/2020/04/twitter-direct-message-cac... 2: If you have Firefox, browse about:compat to see Firefox's workarounds to websites which relies on Chrome-specific behavior. 3: Firefox implementing a wholesale change that maps "-webkit"-prefixed CSS properties (usually implemented by Chrome even, so Google should used "-blink" (the name of their HTML/CSS engine) since "-webkit" is for Safari's changes) to the standard and/or "-moz" equivalents for websites who are using it. 4: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24959588 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24959588
    - banachtarski 6y ago
      I think you’re really cherry picking here. Most developers that frequent “caniuse” most likely encounter lack if safari support above every other browser. Also have you seen webgl 2? What a joke from the webkit team. Yes webgpu is on the way but it’s been like a decade now.
      - zinekeller 6y ago
        I'm arguing on to the "Safari is the new IE" here (unless you're being pedantic on this and say Safari is Mac IE's replacement in 2003), not on what Safari actually lacks (which is many and it also bugs me to no end). There are more features that are actually being essentially "vetoed" by the Chrome team not implementing than by Safari's implementation being delayed (which is somehow around 5 years late).
      - jsgo 6y ago
        Memory is hazy, but from what I've read most people that call Chrome the new IE is because it likes to incorporate non-standard aspects that other browsers don't (because they're not standard) which causes apps to lose functionality (or outright break) outside of Chrome. I can kind of see it both ways. I appreciate that Chromium browsers may have little extras you can tap into as it'll make for neat features (Project Stream and I imagine later Stadia is because of that sort of thing), but it does break browser compatibility so it runs the risk of replicating that "works in IE" experience from way back when. The IE I don't specifically miss though was needing to support older releases of it at work, personally. But I could see disliking the "what do you mean it doesn't work in Safari/Firefox/etc.?" discussions that may happen.
        zinekeller 6y ago
        I do also appreciate the so-called experiments by the Chrome team, but my gripe is that they are implemented directly instead of hiding it in flags. Other people do want to comment on the specific implementation and probably change the API so that for example it is less destructive when there are new subfeatures in the specification. I personally hate how they handled the Polymer specification: thry are still using their draft instead of the standardized version in YouTube for example.

by gman83 6y ago

als0 6y ago

I don't think it's weird that the Safari team work with big developers. They want to make their mobile browser competitive with other browsers, particularly ones that support advanced features that enable cloud gaming.

jagged-chisel 6y ago

"Safari team" doesn't necessarily have the same motivations as "App Store review team." Apple, as a company, needs to play nice with the web.

gfxgirl 6y ago
lol. There's a reason Safari is called the new IE. So many features missing or buggy, not following standards.
- zinekeller 6y ago
  Actually, most developers with an opinion on "new IE" says that Google Chrome is the new IE. There are cases of Firefox and Safari implementing features and Chrome-specific behavior that they won't endorse but are used by webistes (notably, unsurprisingly, Google's sites) [1, 2, 3]. Additionally, there are features that most have requested but are effectively being blocked by Google [3]. 1: https://hacks.mozilla.org/2020/04/twitter-direct-message-caching-and-firefox/ https://hacks.mozilla.org/2020/04/twitter-direct-message-cac... 2: If you have Firefox, browse about:compat to see Firefox's workarounds to websites which relies on Chrome-specific behavior. 3: Firefox implementing a wholesale change that maps "-webkit"-prefixed CSS properties (usually implemented by Chrome even, so Google should used "-blink" (the name of their HTML/CSS engine) since "-webkit" is for Safari's changes) to the standard and/or "-moz" equivalents for websites who are using it. 4: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24959588 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24959588
  - banachtarski 6y ago
    I think you’re really cherry picking here. Most developers that frequent “caniuse” most likely encounter lack if safari support above every other browser. Also have you seen webgl 2? What a joke from the webkit team. Yes webgpu is on the way but it’s been like a decade now.
    - zinekeller 6y ago
      I'm arguing on to the "Safari is the new IE" here (unless you're being pedantic on this and say Safari is Mac IE's replacement in 2003), not on what Safari actually lacks (which is many and it also bugs me to no end). There are more features that are actually being essentially "vetoed" by the Chrome team not implementing than by Safari's implementation being delayed (which is somehow around 5 years late).
    - jsgo 6y ago
      Memory is hazy, but from what I've read most people that call Chrome the new IE is because it likes to incorporate non-standard aspects that other browsers don't (because they're not standard) which causes apps to lose functionality (or outright break) outside of Chrome. I can kind of see it both ways. I appreciate that Chromium browsers may have little extras you can tap into as it'll make for neat features (Project Stream and I imagine later Stadia is because of that sort of thing), but it does break browser compatibility so it runs the risk of replicating that "works in IE" experience from way back when. The IE I don't specifically miss though was needing to support older releases of it at work, personally. But I could see disliking the "what do you mean it doesn't work in Safari/Firefox/etc.?" discussions that may happen.
      - zinekeller 6y ago
        I do also appreciate the so-called experiments by the Chrome team, but my gripe is that they are implemented directly instead of hiding it in flags. Other people do want to comment on the specific implementation and probably change the API so that for example it is less destructive when there are new subfeatures in the specification. I personally hate how they handled the Polymer specification: thry are still using their draft instead of the standardized version in YouTube for example.