4 ms·

I think Biden was well selected to be a candidate that everyone could tolerate. But especially given his age and how much focus there has been on suggesting (p

by nullc 6y ago

I think Biden was well selected to be a candidate that everyone could tolerate. But especially given his age and how much focus there has been on suggesting (perhaps falsely) that his health isn't good, a lot more weight has been given to Harris. Harris did poorly in the primaries and I think even her supporters should be able to see why many people find her to be an extremely undesirable pick (it's not exactly the right political climate to nominate a self-described "Top Cop", and even Biden has a fairly "law and order" voting history, compared to typical for democrats). I know people who hate trump who claimed to have voted for him or just not voted, because they believe that electing Biden/Harris would create a substantial risk of either Harris becoming president or forcing the dems to nominate Harris in the next election (and thus excluding viable candidates that actually reflect their views)... and that for all the find wrong about Trump, he's at least substantially ineffectual.

kibwen 6y ago
> Biden has a fairly "law and order" voting history, compared to typical for democrats Keeping in mind that Biden hasn't been a senator since 2009, during his time in the senate he was dead center among senate Democrats in terms of liberal/conservative votes cast (i.e. both more liberal and more conservative than 50% of his fellow Democratic senators): https://voteview.com/person/14101/joseph-robinette-biden-jr https://voteview.com/person/14101/joseph-robinette-biden-jr . Of course as noted this was over a decade ago, and what passed for centrist back then might not today. In case you're wondering how this metric pans out for the most recent Senate: https://voteview.com/congress/senate/115/text https://voteview.com/congress/senate/115/text , which (according to this metric) lists the four most liberal senators (as shown by their senate votes) as, in order, Warren, Harris, Booker, and Sanders.
- ComputerGuru 6y ago
  I agree, but I don’t think one needs to be particularly overall right-leaning to be right-leaning in a specific facet, and GP was specifically speaking about (and only about) the law and order aspect.
ytdytvhxgydvhh 6y ago
I had that view of Trump for the first 3 years or so - hey, he’s not just divisive but also incompetent so he’s not going to get anything substantial done! So nothing to worry about right? But then COVID hit, and I’m fairly certain that having coordinated, science-based leadership in the highest levels of government would have spared us from quite a lot of suffering. So much for rooting for ineffectual.
- ardy42 6y ago
  > But then COVID hit, and I’m fairly certain that having coordinated, science-based leadership in the highest levels of government would have spared us from quite a lot of suffering. So much for rooting for ineffectual. Yeah, COVID has really emphasized for me (a recovering libertarian) how important it is to have functioning and competent government institutions (along with other social institutions).
  - syshum 6y ago
    So you rejected libertarianism because of ineffective government response? Seems an odd position. The COVID response by the government further illiterates why libertarianism is correct. Having an authoritarian government is not a solution to a pandemic, and it is sad that once again people are willing to sacrifice essential liberty for promised safety Ofourse as the truism goes, you will lose both in that deal... The cult of personality that has wrapped itself around the office of President of the United States is down right terrifying.
    - ardy42 6y ago
      > The COVID response by the government further illiterates why libertarianism is correct. The US COVID response doesn't illustrate that any more than Soviet elections [1] illustrated that voting is a sham, which is to say it doesn't illustrate it at all. A particular bad implementation, especially one that was arguably sabotaged, doesn't disprove a concept. A laissez faire response to an epidemic is a bad one, and the US response has been pretty close to that in many areas. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vFjh8lBB6T4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vFjh8lBB6T4
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
rayiner 6y ago
It’s a great environment to be a self-described “top cop.” This summer, more than half of Latinos polled said they were more worried about the “breakdown of law and order” than “systemic racism.” Nobody except the progressive wing of the Democratic Party sees being a prosecutor as a liability.
- JamesBarney 6y ago
  I think it's a liability in that the democrats best shot at the presidency are candidates that have progressive credentials without being too progressive themselves. Kamala is very progressive in a way that's a huge liability in the general, but because she's a prosecutor she doesn't get as much credit as she should in the primary. And I think in that sense it can be a liability.
alaties 6y ago
I think ineffectual is wrong here, re: Trump. By State Department metrics alone, we pay more now for less people and less passports processed than before Trump took office. Anecdotally, we tend to have less State department representation at trade and industry conferences around the world. It's not very clear to my why we're spending more on the State department under Trump than any year under Obama if we're doing less with it... You can compare the financial reports on their website: https://www.state.gov/plans-performance-budget/agency-financial-reports/ https://www.state.gov/plans-performance-budget/agency-financ... and https://2009-2017.state.gov/s/d/rm/rls/perfrpt/index.htm https://2009-2017.state.gov/s/d/rm/rls/perfrpt/index.htm

by nullc 6y ago

kibwen 6y ago

> Biden has a fairly "law and order" voting history, compared to typical for democrats Keeping in mind that Biden hasn't been a senator since 2009, during his time in the senate he was dead center among senate Democrats in terms of liberal/conservative votes cast (i.e. both more liberal and more conservative than 50% of his fellow Democratic senators): https://voteview.com/person/14101/joseph-robinette-biden-jr https://voteview.com/person/14101/joseph-robinette-biden-jr . Of course as noted this was over a decade ago, and what passed for centrist back then might not today. In case you're wondering how this metric pans out for the most recent Senate: https://voteview.com/congress/senate/115/text https://voteview.com/congress/senate/115/text , which (according to this metric) lists the four most liberal senators (as shown by their senate votes) as, in order, Warren, Harris, Booker, and Sanders.

ComputerGuru 6y ago
I agree, but I don’t think one needs to be particularly overall right-leaning to be right-leaning in a specific facet, and GP was specifically speaking about (and only about) the law and order aspect.

ytdytvhxgydvhh 6y ago

I had that view of Trump for the first 3 years or so - hey, he’s not just divisive but also incompetent so he’s not going to get anything substantial done! So nothing to worry about right? But then COVID hit, and I’m fairly certain that having coordinated, science-based leadership in the highest levels of government would have spared us from quite a lot of suffering. So much for rooting for ineffectual.

ardy42 6y ago
> But then COVID hit, and I’m fairly certain that having coordinated, science-based leadership in the highest levels of government would have spared us from quite a lot of suffering. So much for rooting for ineffectual. Yeah, COVID has really emphasized for me (a recovering libertarian) how important it is to have functioning and competent government institutions (along with other social institutions).
- syshum 6y ago
  So you rejected libertarianism because of ineffective government response? Seems an odd position. The COVID response by the government further illiterates why libertarianism is correct. Having an authoritarian government is not a solution to a pandemic, and it is sad that once again people are willing to sacrifice essential liberty for promised safety Ofourse as the truism goes, you will lose both in that deal... The cult of personality that has wrapped itself around the office of President of the United States is down right terrifying.
  - ardy42 6y ago
    > The COVID response by the government further illiterates why libertarianism is correct. The US COVID response doesn't illustrate that any more than Soviet elections [1] illustrated that voting is a sham, which is to say it doesn't illustrate it at all. A particular bad implementation, especially one that was arguably sabotaged, doesn't disprove a concept. A laissez faire response to an epidemic is a bad one, and the US response has been pretty close to that in many areas. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vFjh8lBB6T4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vFjh8lBB6T4

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

rayiner 6y ago

It’s a great environment to be a self-described “top cop.” This summer, more than half of Latinos polled said they were more worried about the “breakdown of law and order” than “systemic racism.” Nobody except the progressive wing of the Democratic Party sees being a prosecutor as a liability.

JamesBarney 6y ago
I think it's a liability in that the democrats best shot at the presidency are candidates that have progressive credentials without being too progressive themselves. Kamala is very progressive in a way that's a huge liability in the general, but because she's a prosecutor she doesn't get as much credit as she should in the primary. And I think in that sense it can be a liability.

alaties 6y ago

I think ineffectual is wrong here, re: Trump. By State Department metrics alone, we pay more now for less people and less passports processed than before Trump took office. Anecdotally, we tend to have less State department representation at trade and industry conferences around the world. It's not very clear to my why we're spending more on the State department under Trump than any year under Obama if we're doing less with it... You can compare the financial reports on their website: https://www.state.gov/plans-performance-budget/agency-financial-reports/ https://www.state.gov/plans-performance-budget/agency-financ... and https://2009-2017.state.gov/s/d/rm/rls/perfrpt/index.htm https://2009-2017.state.gov/s/d/rm/rls/perfrpt/index.htm