4 ms·

Maybe they should. Something needs to restore faith in the process. If we lose that, we lose everything. And a not-small minority believe that the election was

by throwaway201103 6y ago

Maybe they should. Something needs to restore faith in the process. If we lose that, we lose everything. And a not-small minority believe that the election was fradulent. There's always a fringe that feels that way, but it seems to be growing.

erichocean 6y ago
> Something needs to restore faith in the process. If we lose that, we lose everything. If the process results in electing white supremacist like Trump, shouldn't that cause people to "lose faith in the process?" Biden's historic turnout and election is proof the US doesn't want fascism. If that doesn't restore faith in the process, I don't know what would...
- nostromo 6y ago
  This election is about as far from a clear mandate as you can get, with Democrats (barely) winning a presidency but not the senate and losing ground in the house.
dhimes 6y ago
They're just believing what their information-circle is saying. They're not looking at things themselves. For instance, in the discussions I've seen of the Right talking about fraud, they've not mentioned the shenanigans of the USPS not delivering mail that arrived on time (WaPo yesterday had a story IIRC). They need to believe. So they follow those that help them do so.
- spinningD20 6y ago
  The reverse of that is likely just as true; people that are happy Biden won, have no concern if there was fraud, just like those that wanted Trump to win would not question him winning.
  - nostromo 6y ago
    This is probably the new normal. Republicans have learned a thing or two of after four years of claims about Russia stealing the election. Both sides will work overtime now to delegitimize winners whenever possible.
  - dhimes 6y ago
    You're probably right. I'm not a fan of Trump, and I'm not sure how I'd feel if I found out that there was truly fraud and the election belonged to Trump. But I am in favor of investigating all (legitimate) allegations of fraud, not just the ones that DJT wants to investigate. And counting all ballots.
bcrosby95 6y ago
They're complaining about votes being counted in states run by Republicans when both Republicans and Democrats are watching the count. Trump formed a committee to find voter fraud and for years it failed. It silently disbanded. The heritage foundation has researched voter fraud too, and it has found little to no evidence. If that doesn't satisfy them, what will? You're basically saying we have to convince a group of people that fucking unicorns and dragons don't exist.
- nostromo 6y ago
  The questions were all about what was happening in places like Philadelphia and Detroit -- hardly Republican strongholds. Philadelphia successfully removed GOP observers from the tabulations rooms -- citing Covid-19 concerns -- until a higher court overruled the decision. Of course, by that time, most of the counting was complete. https://www.mycentraloregon.com/2020/11/05/pennsylvania-judge-permits-campaign-observers-up-close-view-of-ballot-count-after-trump-complaint/ https://www.mycentraloregon.com/2020/11/05/pennsylvania-judg... https://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/us-elections-government/ny-pennsylvania-ballot-counting-republicans-20201105-esk2boinpba45ibnbe7qq62hfq-story.html https://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/us-elections-gover...
  - dash2 6y ago
    I think this argument deserves a response, rather than a downvote. Anyone?
    - deleted 6y ago
      [deleted]
    - aconbere 6y ago
      In all seriousness. There was a lawsuit filed by the Trump with regards to the distance requirements for safe viewing of vote counting. The judge overturned a lower court decision on what safe distances would be, and enabled observers to observe from 6 feet instead of 10. The first source listed corroborates this story (although I haven't found any primary sources or what the exact contents of the complaint were, abcnews seems to be the source that most outlets are referencing https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/pennsylvania-judge-permits-campaign-observers-close-view-ballot/story?id=74040279 https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/pennsylvania-judge-permits-c...). There doesn't seem to be any truth to observers being removed from any tabulation rooms (or at least I can't find any trustworthy sources). The second source, while claiming this in the headline, is also just referencing the complaint discussed earlier and has twisted that into the headline.
bleepblorp 6y ago
Faith is eroding in the American electoral process because the Republican party has been working very hard both to undermine the process and to spread propaganda to the effect that the process is untrustworthy. People could have more faith in the process without more legal cases like Florida 2000 (which kept Gore out of the White House despite him winning the vote in Florida), the Brooks Brothers Riot[0] and its 2020 replicas, the 2019 Georgia governors race (where the Republican candidate was also the secretary of state responsible for counting the votes; needless to say, there were 'irregularities.'), pervasive efforts to prevent demographics that historically do not vote Republican from voting[1], manipulation of the postal service to disenfranchise likely Biden voters[2], the continuing myth of 'voter fraud' that the GOP spreads[3] to justify disenfranchisement, and the constant drumbeat of 'it's rigged if I don't win' emerging from Trump's Twitter account and replicated by Facebook and other right-wing media outlets. There's no clear way to restore faith in the electoral process without removing disdain for democracy from the Republican Party's DNA. [0] https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/what-is-the-brooks-brothers-riot-stop-the-count-protests-draw-comparisons-to-november-2000-election-chaos/ar-BB1aHyjX https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/what-is-the-brooks-b... [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voter_suppression_in_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voter_suppression_in_the_Unite... [2] https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2020/11/05/usps-late-ballots-election https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2020/11/05/usps-late... [3] https://www.cnbc.com/2020/09/24/fbi-has-not-seen-evidence-of-widespread-voter-fraud-director-wray-tells-senators.html https://www.cnbc.com/2020/09/24/fbi-has-not-seen-evidence-of...
- erichocean 6y ago
  Is there a way for the Supreme Court to censure the Republican Party for the damage they've caused? Serious question…
  - raegis 6y ago
    No, this is not in the constitution. But regardless, two-thirds of the supreme court are Republican appointees.
  - bleepblorp 6y ago

erichocean 6y ago

> Something needs to restore faith in the process. If we lose that, we lose everything. If the process results in electing white supremacist like Trump, shouldn't that cause people to "lose faith in the process?" Biden's historic turnout and election is proof the US doesn't want fascism. If that doesn't restore faith in the process, I don't know what would...

nostromo 6y ago
This election is about as far from a clear mandate as you can get, with Democrats (barely) winning a presidency but not the senate and losing ground in the house.

dhimes 6y ago

They're just believing what their information-circle is saying. They're not looking at things themselves. For instance, in the discussions I've seen of the Right talking about fraud, they've not mentioned the shenanigans of the USPS not delivering mail that arrived on time (WaPo yesterday had a story IIRC). They need to believe. So they follow those that help them do so.

spinningD20 6y ago
The reverse of that is likely just as true; people that are happy Biden won, have no concern if there was fraud, just like those that wanted Trump to win would not question him winning.
- nostromo 6y ago
  This is probably the new normal. Republicans have learned a thing or two of after four years of claims about Russia stealing the election. Both sides will work overtime now to delegitimize winners whenever possible.
- dhimes 6y ago
  You're probably right. I'm not a fan of Trump, and I'm not sure how I'd feel if I found out that there was truly fraud and the election belonged to Trump. But I am in favor of investigating all (legitimate) allegations of fraud, not just the ones that DJT wants to investigate. And counting all ballots.

bcrosby95 6y ago

They're complaining about votes being counted in states run by Republicans when both Republicans and Democrats are watching the count. Trump formed a committee to find voter fraud and for years it failed. It silently disbanded. The heritage foundation has researched voter fraud too, and it has found little to no evidence. If that doesn't satisfy them, what will? You're basically saying we have to convince a group of people that fucking unicorns and dragons don't exist.

nostromo 6y ago
The questions were all about what was happening in places like Philadelphia and Detroit -- hardly Republican strongholds. Philadelphia successfully removed GOP observers from the tabulations rooms -- citing Covid-19 concerns -- until a higher court overruled the decision. Of course, by that time, most of the counting was complete. https://www.mycentraloregon.com/2020/11/05/pennsylvania-judge-permits-campaign-observers-up-close-view-of-ballot-count-after-trump-complaint/ https://www.mycentraloregon.com/2020/11/05/pennsylvania-judg... https://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/us-elections-government/ny-pennsylvania-ballot-counting-republicans-20201105-esk2boinpba45ibnbe7qq62hfq-story.html https://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/us-elections-gover...
- dash2 6y ago
  I think this argument deserves a response, rather than a downvote. Anyone?
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
  - aconbere 6y ago
    In all seriousness. There was a lawsuit filed by the Trump with regards to the distance requirements for safe viewing of vote counting. The judge overturned a lower court decision on what safe distances would be, and enabled observers to observe from 6 feet instead of 10. The first source listed corroborates this story (although I haven't found any primary sources or what the exact contents of the complaint were, abcnews seems to be the source that most outlets are referencing https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/pennsylvania-judge-permits-campaign-observers-close-view-ballot/story?id=74040279 https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/pennsylvania-judge-permits-c...). There doesn't seem to be any truth to observers being removed from any tabulation rooms (or at least I can't find any trustworthy sources). The second source, while claiming this in the headline, is also just referencing the complaint discussed earlier and has twisted that into the headline.

bleepblorp 6y ago

Faith is eroding in the American electoral process because the Republican party has been working very hard both to undermine the process and to spread propaganda to the effect that the process is untrustworthy. People could have more faith in the process without more legal cases like Florida 2000 (which kept Gore out of the White House despite him winning the vote in Florida), the Brooks Brothers Riot[0] and its 2020 replicas, the 2019 Georgia governors race (where the Republican candidate was also the secretary of state responsible for counting the votes; needless to say, there were 'irregularities.'), pervasive efforts to prevent demographics that historically do not vote Republican from voting[1], manipulation of the postal service to disenfranchise likely Biden voters[2], the continuing myth of 'voter fraud' that the GOP spreads[3] to justify disenfranchisement, and the constant drumbeat of 'it's rigged if I don't win' emerging from Trump's Twitter account and replicated by Facebook and other right-wing media outlets. There's no clear way to restore faith in the electoral process without removing disdain for democracy from the Republican Party's DNA. [0] https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/what-is-the-brooks-brothers-riot-stop-the-count-protests-draw-comparisons-to-november-2000-election-chaos/ar-BB1aHyjX https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/what-is-the-brooks-b... [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voter_suppression_in_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voter_suppression_in_the_Unite... [2] https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2020/11/05/usps-late-ballots-election https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2020/11/05/usps-late... [3] https://www.cnbc.com/2020/09/24/fbi-has-not-seen-evidence-of-widespread-voter-fraud-director-wray-tells-senators.html https://www.cnbc.com/2020/09/24/fbi-has-not-seen-evidence-of...

erichocean 6y ago
Is there a way for the Supreme Court to censure the Republican Party for the damage they've caused? Serious question…
- raegis 6y ago
  No, this is not in the constitution. But regardless, two-thirds of the supreme court are Republican appointees.
- bleepblorp 6y ago