3 ms·

He got lucky with foreign policy, and he did start a war against immigrants and people whose skin color is not white in the USA itself, led by Stephen Miller.

jebronie 6y ago
How high is the death toll, how many cities where obliterated?
Grakel 6y ago
Entering the country illegally makes you a criminal. Trump got 40 percent of the Hispanic vote.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- ed25519FUUU 6y ago
  Latino vote is currently responsible for almost all of the house seat flips for republicans, especially in CA.
- ookdatnog 6y ago
  > Entering the country illegally makes you a criminal. If you define "criminal" as "any person who has committed a crime", and "crime" as "any illegal act that can be punished by law", then yes. By that definition, everyone who has ever received a parking ticket is a criminal too, though. Seems more sensible to reserve this loaded term (in US context) for the violent crimes and property crimes the FBI releases statistics on.
  - slumdev 6y ago
    > If you define "criminal" as "any person who has committed a crime", and "crime" as "any illegal act that can be punished by law", then yes. A criminal is a person who commits a crime. It is possible, by ceasing to commit crimes and making restitution to society, to return to a state of non-criminality. But while one is still committing a crime, no amount of hand-waving or pearl clutching can make a non-criminal out of someone who is actively committing a crime. For an illegal immigrant, this would mean either lawful settlement or deportation. Until an illegal immigrant either earns the right to settle or leaves the country, that person is still a criminal.
    - vharuck 6y ago
      To carry with the driving violation analogy, if you've ever gone above the speed limit but not been ticketed, then you are still a criminal. You have not ceased committing that crime.
      - slumdev 6y ago
        Assuming you've stopped speeding, you have ceased committing the crime, but you have not made restitution. There's a difference.
    - ookdatnog 6y ago
      I know people who systematically drive over the speed limit. I disapprove of it, but I wouldn't call them criminals. You can justify doing that by being sufficiently pedantic about definitions, but I don't think you gain anything in the public debate by lumping "people who speed" in the same category as burglars, murderers, etc. In most discussions, it's not productive to view these people as belonging to the same group.
      - slumdev 6y ago
        Yes, people who systematically drive over the speed limit are criminals. Obviously, criminality is a spectrum. We can debate the seriousness of violating speed limit laws, but the violations are still violations.
        ookdatnog 6y ago
        Our disagreement is not in reasoning but in axioms. Your deduction based on the dictionary definition of "criminal" is valid (I say dictionary definition and not legal definition because, afaik, "criminal" is not a legal term). But I don't accept dictionaries as the ultimate authority of the meaning of words, just a handy guide. The meaning of a word is whatever people tend to understand that word as. I cannot prove this on the spot, since I'd have to invest time into organizing a survey, but I'm fairly confident that, if you ask a thousand people whether someone who drives over the speed limit is a criminal, a majority of them would say "no" (phrasing of the question will matter probably though). You can insist on the dictionary being the ultimate source of truth, that is fine. But all that achieves is setting yourself up for gratuitous, avoidable miscommunications. If your theory of language makes communication harder, it seems to undermine the point of language.
- mseidl 6y ago
  Crossing the country "border" is simply a misdemeanor(like driving without insurance). But if you're a refugee there is no "illegal" way to cross. You can cross where ever then once you make it over you can apply for refugee status.
  - googthrowaway42 6y ago
    He said criminal, not felon. A misdemeanor is a class of crimes.

jebronie 6y ago

How high is the death toll, how many cities where obliterated?

Grakel 6y ago

Entering the country illegally makes you a criminal. Trump got 40 percent of the Hispanic vote.

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
ed25519FUUU 6y ago
Latino vote is currently responsible for almost all of the house seat flips for republicans, especially in CA.
ookdatnog 6y ago
> Entering the country illegally makes you a criminal. If you define "criminal" as "any person who has committed a crime", and "crime" as "any illegal act that can be punished by law", then yes. By that definition, everyone who has ever received a parking ticket is a criminal too, though. Seems more sensible to reserve this loaded term (in US context) for the violent crimes and property crimes the FBI releases statistics on.
- slumdev 6y ago
  > If you define "criminal" as "any person who has committed a crime", and "crime" as "any illegal act that can be punished by law", then yes. A criminal is a person who commits a crime. It is possible, by ceasing to commit crimes and making restitution to society, to return to a state of non-criminality. But while one is still committing a crime, no amount of hand-waving or pearl clutching can make a non-criminal out of someone who is actively committing a crime. For an illegal immigrant, this would mean either lawful settlement or deportation. Until an illegal immigrant either earns the right to settle or leaves the country, that person is still a criminal.
  - vharuck 6y ago
    To carry with the driving violation analogy, if you've ever gone above the speed limit but not been ticketed, then you are still a criminal. You have not ceased committing that crime.
    - slumdev 6y ago
      Assuming you've stopped speeding, you have ceased committing the crime, but you have not made restitution. There's a difference.
  - ookdatnog 6y ago
    I know people who systematically drive over the speed limit. I disapprove of it, but I wouldn't call them criminals. You can justify doing that by being sufficiently pedantic about definitions, but I don't think you gain anything in the public debate by lumping "people who speed" in the same category as burglars, murderers, etc. In most discussions, it's not productive to view these people as belonging to the same group.
    - slumdev 6y ago
      Yes, people who systematically drive over the speed limit are criminals. Obviously, criminality is a spectrum. We can debate the seriousness of violating speed limit laws, but the violations are still violations.
      - ookdatnog 6y ago
        Our disagreement is not in reasoning but in axioms. Your deduction based on the dictionary definition of "criminal" is valid (I say dictionary definition and not legal definition because, afaik, "criminal" is not a legal term). But I don't accept dictionaries as the ultimate authority of the meaning of words, just a handy guide. The meaning of a word is whatever people tend to understand that word as. I cannot prove this on the spot, since I'd have to invest time into organizing a survey, but I'm fairly confident that, if you ask a thousand people whether someone who drives over the speed limit is a criminal, a majority of them would say "no" (phrasing of the question will matter probably though). You can insist on the dictionary being the ultimate source of truth, that is fine. But all that achieves is setting yourself up for gratuitous, avoidable miscommunications. If your theory of language makes communication harder, it seems to undermine the point of language.
mseidl 6y ago
Crossing the country "border" is simply a misdemeanor(like driving without insurance). But if you're a refugee there is no "illegal" way to cross. You can cross where ever then once you make it over you can apply for refugee status.
- googthrowaway42 6y ago
  He said criminal, not felon. A misdemeanor is a class of crimes.