6 ms·

The past four years and this election has exposed some deep problems within American Society. If about 47% of your country was happy to kill democracy and rewa

The past four years and this election has exposed some deep problems within American Society. If about 47% of your country was happy to kill democracy and reward immoral behaviour just to retain power, often justified by religious beliefs... And Trump is not gone yet... Who knows what the Republicans will do with the stacked Supreme Court...

paulddraper 6y ago
> If about 47% of your country was happy to kill democracy If you think half the country wants to rewrite the Constitution and remove democracy...I'm not really sure what to say.
- chillwaves 6y ago
  It's more of the half of the 47% who are in the cult of personality. I don't think they were against democracy so much as for Trump (but it does go to show how little some folks care about democracy when they are losing).
- aranelsurion 6y ago
  I guess almost nobody wants to 'remove democracy' even in the least democratic places. A more plausible explanation here would be indifference. Maybe they don't want to remove democracy, but not exactly trying to uphold it over everything else either. Maybe seeing your cult of personality hero in office, or your religion or your flavour of boogieman (=not losing the country to commies kind of thinking) has ultimately higher priority than keeping the democracy alive. I'm not saying that's what is happening, I'm just saying I can see how masses can smother democracy without specifically having the intention to kill it. disclaimer: non-US, my opinion on anything US would be at best inaccurate.
dantheman 6y ago
I think you need to take a step back and really try understand those who disagree with you - your views or maybe just the way you express it is toxic and dividing. If you can't think of one reason why someone might not want to vote your candidate I feel sorry for you. There are many valid reasons to vote for all candidates and the weighting of the issues is personal and perhaps not everyone agrees with the weighting that you do.
read_if_gay_ 6y ago
> If about 47% of your country was happy to kill democracy and reward immoral behaviour just to retain power And these 47% would say exactly the same thing about the others. That’s the divide GP was pointing out and ironically your response is perpetuating it. Stop dehumanizing people.
- louwrentius 6y ago
  It's funny that you ask me to stop dehumanising people. But what did that 47% do constantly for four years? What do you think those 47% want with gays, abortion (is murder!!!!) and foreigners? Knowing full well what this last administration is up to?
  - read_if_gay_ 6y ago
    Are you seriously arguing "but they do it too"?
    - louwrentius 6y ago
      No, the dehumanising was mostly one particular side.
      - read_if_gay_ 6y ago
        That’s not even true. Stop thinking that way if you ever want this country to unite.
  - kortilla 6y ago
    > What do you think those 47% want with gays, abortion (is murder!!!!) and foreigners? Trump didn’t run on an anti-gay platform. You’re right that anti-abortion is still big. Until you can convince people that it’s not murder, it’s pretty hard to get them to back down from that stance. This is honestly the only reason the Republicans trap so much of the religious vote. “Foreigners” is also not something Republicans are against, it’s illegal immigration that’s the complaint. That’s why they support reforms that still allow significant immigration.
rtx 6y ago
This is a very western view, you have war criminals as former presidents. This was not the worst of the US. You have people bombing weddings and you find this to be the worst.
- mindslight 6y ago
  As someone who is no fan of the warmongers, imperialist US policy, or the debt treadmill that fuels them, I would still rather have a conservative president that serves the US power structure, than a president that shirks his job during a domestic crisis and kills a quarter million Americans. Sorry rest of the world, we will get back to trying to stop the war machine after we get our own house in order. (Also, witnessing the ceding of Hong Kong to China two decades ahead of schedule did make me appreciate the projection of soft power where USG had been keeping order without dropping bombs)
- tonitosou 6y ago
  exactly. the fact that hes the only president in recent history not to wage a war should be reason enough for a nobel if we gave it to obama
  - pcestrada 6y ago
    he was too inept to start war
ben_w 6y ago
I would be surprised if as many as half of those who voted for him believed that they were voting to either kill democracy or rewarding immoral behaviour. Perhaps I’m overly-cynical, but in my (limited) experience, most people just don’t pay enough attention for such motivations — or even expectations — to be plausible.
- louwrentius 6y ago
  It's probably worse: they want abortions illegal and gays back in the closet. Look at the packing of the SC.
  - nickysielicki 6y ago
    Filling vacancies is not what "court packing" means. That's never what it has meant. Court packing is when you create new positions (and thus, vacancies) to fill. Filling a lot of court vacancies is not court packing. And you know this. And Joe Biden knew this when he made the same claim in one of the debates. It's gaslighting, and it bothers me that absolutely nobody called him out on it. Court packing is a red line that nobody should cross. I feel it's important that we all choose our words carefully so that it continues to stay off the table.
jl6 6y ago
IMHO if you ask Americans bluntly if they’d be willing to end democracy so that their candidate remains in power, you’d get only a small percentage agreeing. What actually happened was that large numbers of voters are stuck in a filter bubble and their only news sources were telling them the election was being stolen. So by supporting Trump they probably thought they were defending democracy. Of course, those particular news stories were pure lies. But we should focus on the peddlers of lies more than those who were duped by them.

paulddraper 6y ago

> If about 47% of your country was happy to kill democracy If you think half the country wants to rewrite the Constitution and remove democracy...I'm not really sure what to say.

chillwaves 6y ago
It's more of the half of the 47% who are in the cult of personality. I don't think they were against democracy so much as for Trump (but it does go to show how little some folks care about democracy when they are losing).
aranelsurion 6y ago
I guess almost nobody wants to 'remove democracy' even in the least democratic places. A more plausible explanation here would be indifference. Maybe they don't want to remove democracy, but not exactly trying to uphold it over everything else either. Maybe seeing your cult of personality hero in office, or your religion or your flavour of boogieman (=not losing the country to commies kind of thinking) has ultimately higher priority than keeping the democracy alive. I'm not saying that's what is happening, I'm just saying I can see how masses can smother democracy without specifically having the intention to kill it. disclaimer: non-US, my opinion on anything US would be at best inaccurate.

dantheman 6y ago

I think you need to take a step back and really try understand those who disagree with you - your views or maybe just the way you express it is toxic and dividing. If you can't think of one reason why someone might not want to vote your candidate I feel sorry for you. There are many valid reasons to vote for all candidates and the weighting of the issues is personal and perhaps not everyone agrees with the weighting that you do.

read_if_gay_ 6y ago

> If about 47% of your country was happy to kill democracy and reward immoral behaviour just to retain power And these 47% would say exactly the same thing about the others. That’s the divide GP was pointing out and ironically your response is perpetuating it. Stop dehumanizing people.

louwrentius 6y ago
It's funny that you ask me to stop dehumanising people. But what did that 47% do constantly for four years? What do you think those 47% want with gays, abortion (is murder!!!!) and foreigners? Knowing full well what this last administration is up to?
- read_if_gay_ 6y ago
  Are you seriously arguing "but they do it too"?
  - louwrentius 6y ago
    No, the dehumanising was mostly one particular side.
    - read_if_gay_ 6y ago
      That’s not even true. Stop thinking that way if you ever want this country to unite.
- kortilla 6y ago
  > What do you think those 47% want with gays, abortion (is murder!!!!) and foreigners? Trump didn’t run on an anti-gay platform. You’re right that anti-abortion is still big. Until you can convince people that it’s not murder, it’s pretty hard to get them to back down from that stance. This is honestly the only reason the Republicans trap so much of the religious vote. “Foreigners” is also not something Republicans are against, it’s illegal immigration that’s the complaint. That’s why they support reforms that still allow significant immigration.

rtx 6y ago

This is a very western view, you have war criminals as former presidents. This was not the worst of the US. You have people bombing weddings and you find this to be the worst.

mindslight 6y ago
As someone who is no fan of the warmongers, imperialist US policy, or the debt treadmill that fuels them, I would still rather have a conservative president that serves the US power structure, than a president that shirks his job during a domestic crisis and kills a quarter million Americans. Sorry rest of the world, we will get back to trying to stop the war machine after we get our own house in order. (Also, witnessing the ceding of Hong Kong to China two decades ahead of schedule did make me appreciate the projection of soft power where USG had been keeping order without dropping bombs)
tonitosou 6y ago
exactly. the fact that hes the only president in recent history not to wage a war should be reason enough for a nobel if we gave it to obama
- pcestrada 6y ago
  he was too inept to start war

ben_w 6y ago

I would be surprised if as many as half of those who voted for him believed that they were voting to either kill democracy or rewarding immoral behaviour. Perhaps I’m overly-cynical, but in my (limited) experience, most people just don’t pay enough attention for such motivations — or even expectations — to be plausible.

louwrentius 6y ago
It's probably worse: they want abortions illegal and gays back in the closet. Look at the packing of the SC.
- nickysielicki 6y ago
  Filling vacancies is not what "court packing" means. That's never what it has meant. Court packing is when you create new positions (and thus, vacancies) to fill. Filling a lot of court vacancies is not court packing. And you know this. And Joe Biden knew this when he made the same claim in one of the debates. It's gaslighting, and it bothers me that absolutely nobody called him out on it. Court packing is a red line that nobody should cross. I feel it's important that we all choose our words carefully so that it continues to stay off the table.

jl6 6y ago

IMHO if you ask Americans bluntly if they’d be willing to end democracy so that their candidate remains in power, you’d get only a small percentage agreeing. What actually happened was that large numbers of voters are stuck in a filter bubble and their only news sources were telling them the election was being stolen. So by supporting Trump they probably thought they were defending democracy. Of course, those particular news stories were pure lies. But we should focus on the peddlers of lies more than those who were duped by them.