5 ms·

A few differences: * In 2000 it was one tipping-point state. Here, Biden has multiple states putting him over the top. * The margin in those states is larger

A few differences: * In 2000 it was one tipping-point state. Here, Biden has multiple states putting him over the top. * The margin in those states is larger than in Florida. The final official Florida count gave the victory to Bush by 537 votes. * 2000 involved a recount of legitimately questionable ballots. Trump's legal cases (thus far) have been judged by experts to be far less serious. * Trump (so far) is not challenging enough ballots to give him the lead in the tipping-point state.

jansan 6y ago
* Trump's legal cases (thus far) have been judged by experts to be far less serious* Tell us more, where are the details of that legal case?
- granzymes 6y ago
  https://apnews.com/article/election-2020-donald-trump-elections-voting-fraud-and-irregularities-us-supreme-court-14eb73bc80dfd2aa637d097a3f41fca5 https://apnews.com/article/election-2020-donald-trump-electi... https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/06/us/politics/trump-election-voter-fraud.html https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/06/us/politics/trump-electio... https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-11-06/supreme-court-probably-wont-decide-2020-us-presidential-election/12856390 https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-11-06/supreme-court-probabl... https://www.cnn.com/2020/11/06/politics/lawsuits-trump-gop-proof/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2020/11/06/politics/lawsuits-trump-gop-p... https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/judges-evidence-trump-campaign-election-cases-tossed/story?id=74071460 https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/judges-evidence-trump-campai...
  - berniepebbles 6y ago
    Let’s be honest, these are activist sources who all happen to be left leaning.
    - granzymes 6y ago
      I added a link to AP News. I don't think anyone questions the legitimacy of the AP.
      - berniepebbles 6y ago
        It’s not about legitimacy, it’s about misleading people about your veil of objectivity when your biases, yes even AP leans left, come out through your authors and published work.
    - wernercd 6y ago
      AP news isn't much better... the MSM has destroyed their reputation in the march to hate Trump.
    - jnetterf 6y ago
      From https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-trump-campaign-is-suing-over-voting-procedures-a-look-at-the-lawsuits-11604618514 https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-trump-campaign-is-suing-ove... ... Barry Richard, an election lawyer who served as a lead attorney for President George W. Bush during the 2000 recount in Florida, criticized the campaign’s efforts. “I wouldn’t call it a strategy,” he said. “There isn’t any legal basis for anything I’ve seen so far.” Other election law experts have questioned the multipronged attack. Richard Hasen, professor at UC Irvine School of Law and author of “Election Meltdown,” said the lawsuits, even if partially successful, were smaller-scale and didn’t threaten the results. “If they’re not being filed to change the election outcome, what’s the point?” he said.
    - mhh__ 6y ago
      Complete Tripe. It's a conspiracy against Donald Trump because he's a man of the people!
      - berniepebbles 6y ago
        I didn’t claim conspiracy, but the media doesn’t decide elections. Trump is definitely an outsider.
- malcolmgreaves 6y ago
  He sued to stop counting legally cast ballots in states he was winning (PA,MI,WI) while suing other states to recount where he was loosing (AZ,GA, etc.). It's both a contradictory argument and obviously illegal: you can't stop a state's election board from counting the already cast ballots.
- guscost 6y ago
  Well they’re going to try to challenge lots of mail-in ballots that were either processed without poll watchers being able to see the signatures, or allegedly backdated by USPS, for a start. The first suit will be filed on Monday according to Giuliani. We’ll see how far it goes, but should be fun. This is just announced today so I’m not sure how “experts” could have weighed in already, whatever that means.
  - dlp211 6y ago
    They're going to get figuratively laughed out of court like have been so far. The handful of cases they have won are so non-controversial, they could have been equally brought by the Biden campaign, eg: observer distance in PA. These aren't serious people. They never have been, they never will be.
    - guscost 6y ago
      Ok, that’s one prediction. > These aren’t serious people. They never have been, they never will be. Well, Giuliani prosecuted the NY mafia and won, so part of this statement is a little far fetched.
      - dlp211 6y ago
        Yes, at one time Giuliani did good things. That was over 25 years ago. Giuliani is nothing more than a muckraker for Trump nowadays. And yes that is a prediction. But it is an informed prediction. It is informed by the fact that so far, every case has been tossed for lack of evidence. I can go around making false assertions and filing false lawsuits all day too, it doesn't mean that anyone should take them seriously, and no one would. The only reason that we give these assertions oxygen is out of deference to the power these people hold.
      - dlp211 6y ago
        Follow Up: The NY Post editorial board, one of the few boards that endorsed Trump has offered the following advice: "Get Rudy Giuliani off TV." Even the Post doesn't give Giuliani credence. Trump will get recounts, none of them will move the numbers in a meaningful way, just like every other recount in the history of Presidential recounts.
allenu 6y ago
2000 also had the "hanging chads" issue and confusing ballots that potentially caused people to choose a different candidate from what they wanted.
- wernercd 6y ago
  2020 has ballots after the election day... Hanging chads were at least GUARENTEED to be cast before election. The race to change laws in various states at the last minute has guaranteed a faught and without hesitation leaves open the charge of fraud. There is zero reason why America shouldn't have VoterID free to all and sanity checks at the voter booth to guarentee 150+ year olds don't vote. https://www.indiarightnownews.com/seven-voters-older-than-the-oldest-human-being-alive-today-voted-in-michigan-including-one-man-born-in-1850/ https://www.indiarightnownews.com/seven-voters-older-than-th... The charges of fraud are only going to worse the longer those in power don't take real steps to fix the issues.
  - joshuamorton 6y ago
    There are no ballots cast after election day. There are some received after election day, but none in PA, where those ballots aren't included in any counts.
    - maerF0x0 6y ago
      Can you help me understand how we'd know if a ballot were cast after election day, if received after election day? I understand postmark is one such form of "signature of authenticity" (in a sense). Are there others at play?
      - joshuamorton 6y ago
        There are (generally) three ways to vote. In person, absentee via some form of ballot drop off, and absentee by mail. In person and absentee ballots dropped off can be trivially found to be legitimate (timewise). You have them by 8PM or you don't. For mail-in ballots, states have different rules. Some states allow ballots received by the 12th or later, as long as the postmark is on or before election day. Some states require ballots to be received by election day. PA is under a microscope because ballots postmarked by the 3rd, but received by the 6th may or may not be counted, pending court decisions. Those ballots, however, are not included in current vote totals as reported by the state, so Biden won PA without those votes (and beyond the margin required for a recount). They'd just further extend his lead.

jansan 6y ago

* Trump's legal cases (thus far) have been judged by experts to be far less serious* Tell us more, where are the details of that legal case?

granzymes 6y ago
https://apnews.com/article/election-2020-donald-trump-elections-voting-fraud-and-irregularities-us-supreme-court-14eb73bc80dfd2aa637d097a3f41fca5 https://apnews.com/article/election-2020-donald-trump-electi... https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/06/us/politics/trump-election-voter-fraud.html https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/06/us/politics/trump-electio... https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-11-06/supreme-court-probably-wont-decide-2020-us-presidential-election/12856390 https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-11-06/supreme-court-probabl... https://www.cnn.com/2020/11/06/politics/lawsuits-trump-gop-proof/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2020/11/06/politics/lawsuits-trump-gop-p... https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/judges-evidence-trump-campaign-election-cases-tossed/story?id=74071460 https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/judges-evidence-trump-campai...
- berniepebbles 6y ago
  Let’s be honest, these are activist sources who all happen to be left leaning.
  - granzymes 6y ago
    I added a link to AP News. I don't think anyone questions the legitimacy of the AP.
    - berniepebbles 6y ago
      It’s not about legitimacy, it’s about misleading people about your veil of objectivity when your biases, yes even AP leans left, come out through your authors and published work.
  - wernercd 6y ago
    AP news isn't much better... the MSM has destroyed their reputation in the march to hate Trump.
  - jnetterf 6y ago
    From https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-trump-campaign-is-suing-over-voting-procedures-a-look-at-the-lawsuits-11604618514 https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-trump-campaign-is-suing-ove... ... Barry Richard, an election lawyer who served as a lead attorney for President George W. Bush during the 2000 recount in Florida, criticized the campaign’s efforts. “I wouldn’t call it a strategy,” he said. “There isn’t any legal basis for anything I’ve seen so far.” Other election law experts have questioned the multipronged attack. Richard Hasen, professor at UC Irvine School of Law and author of “Election Meltdown,” said the lawsuits, even if partially successful, were smaller-scale and didn’t threaten the results. “If they’re not being filed to change the election outcome, what’s the point?” he said.
  - mhh__ 6y ago
    Complete Tripe. It's a conspiracy against Donald Trump because he's a man of the people!
    - berniepebbles 6y ago
      I didn’t claim conspiracy, but the media doesn’t decide elections. Trump is definitely an outsider.
malcolmgreaves 6y ago
He sued to stop counting legally cast ballots in states he was winning (PA,MI,WI) while suing other states to recount where he was loosing (AZ,GA, etc.). It's both a contradictory argument and obviously illegal: you can't stop a state's election board from counting the already cast ballots.
guscost 6y ago
Well they’re going to try to challenge lots of mail-in ballots that were either processed without poll watchers being able to see the signatures, or allegedly backdated by USPS, for a start. The first suit will be filed on Monday according to Giuliani. We’ll see how far it goes, but should be fun. This is just announced today so I’m not sure how “experts” could have weighed in already, whatever that means.
- dlp211 6y ago
  They're going to get figuratively laughed out of court like have been so far. The handful of cases they have won are so non-controversial, they could have been equally brought by the Biden campaign, eg: observer distance in PA. These aren't serious people. They never have been, they never will be.
  - guscost 6y ago
    Ok, that’s one prediction. > These aren’t serious people. They never have been, they never will be. Well, Giuliani prosecuted the NY mafia and won, so part of this statement is a little far fetched.
    - dlp211 6y ago
      Yes, at one time Giuliani did good things. That was over 25 years ago. Giuliani is nothing more than a muckraker for Trump nowadays. And yes that is a prediction. But it is an informed prediction. It is informed by the fact that so far, every case has been tossed for lack of evidence. I can go around making false assertions and filing false lawsuits all day too, it doesn't mean that anyone should take them seriously, and no one would. The only reason that we give these assertions oxygen is out of deference to the power these people hold.
    - dlp211 6y ago
      Follow Up: The NY Post editorial board, one of the few boards that endorsed Trump has offered the following advice: "Get Rudy Giuliani off TV." Even the Post doesn't give Giuliani credence. Trump will get recounts, none of them will move the numbers in a meaningful way, just like every other recount in the history of Presidential recounts.

allenu 6y ago

2000 also had the "hanging chads" issue and confusing ballots that potentially caused people to choose a different candidate from what they wanted.

wernercd 6y ago
2020 has ballots after the election day... Hanging chads were at least GUARENTEED to be cast before election. The race to change laws in various states at the last minute has guaranteed a faught and without hesitation leaves open the charge of fraud. There is zero reason why America shouldn't have VoterID free to all and sanity checks at the voter booth to guarentee 150+ year olds don't vote. https://www.indiarightnownews.com/seven-voters-older-than-the-oldest-human-being-alive-today-voted-in-michigan-including-one-man-born-in-1850/ https://www.indiarightnownews.com/seven-voters-older-than-th... The charges of fraud are only going to worse the longer those in power don't take real steps to fix the issues.
- joshuamorton 6y ago
  There are no ballots cast after election day. There are some received after election day, but none in PA, where those ballots aren't included in any counts.
  - maerF0x0 6y ago
    Can you help me understand how we'd know if a ballot were cast after election day, if received after election day? I understand postmark is one such form of "signature of authenticity" (in a sense). Are there others at play?
    - joshuamorton 6y ago
      There are (generally) three ways to vote. In person, absentee via some form of ballot drop off, and absentee by mail. In person and absentee ballots dropped off can be trivially found to be legitimate (timewise). You have them by 8PM or you don't. For mail-in ballots, states have different rules. Some states allow ballots received by the 12th or later, as long as the postmark is on or before election day. Some states require ballots to be received by election day. PA is under a microscope because ballots postmarked by the 3rd, but received by the 6th may or may not be counted, pending court decisions. Those ballots, however, are not included in current vote totals as reported by the state, so Biden won PA without those votes (and beyond the margin required for a recount). They'd just further extend his lead.