4 ms·

It's one thing to acknowledge that alcohol has an affect on stress. But that isn't what this is happening. It would be another thing entirely to REBRAND alcoho

It's one thing to acknowledge that alcohol has an affect on stress. But that isn't what this is happening. It would be another thing entirely to REBRAND alcohol as a "therapy tool". FFS.

JumpCrisscross 6y ago
> that isn't what this is happening Of course it is. You have never seen an ad selling some drink as a tool for unwinding after a stressful day? Anything psychologically active can be sold for therapeutic and recreational uses. And anything used for the latter can be abused.
- NeutronStar 6y ago
  I agree. Anything recreational could also be meant as therapeutic. Anything. Not just drugs.
stickfigure 6y ago
If alcohol was as restricted as MDMA, we just might start calling alcohol a therapy tool. But right now anyone (of legal age) who wants it can order a glass of wine or two, so the people that benefit from it have it. Nobody thinks twice. You sound incredulous that psilocybin or mdma could be therapy tools. Are you a psychologist? Do you have any firsthand experience with these chemicals? Why are you skeptical?
- __blockcipher__ 6y ago
  The real distinction here is mechanism of action. Psilocybin helps fix psychoemotional problems in an enduring sense. You take one, or three, doses and your personality and self-understanding are permanently altered. Alcohol works acutely. So I totally agree the term therapeutic is an arbitrary label; all drugs have effects and thus can be therapeutic for condition X and deleterious for condition Y. But worth noting that psilocybin and MDMA produce enduring benefits whereas alcohol appears not to.
  - bjt2n3904 6y ago
    *Results may vary. Ask your doctor if taking permanent mind altering substances is right for you.
- DanBC 6y ago
  The point being made is that alcohol is legal, and massively harmful, and the public health measures around alcohol aren't great, and so maybe we need to be cautious when decriminalising and legalising other drugs to ensure that we have some health protections in place. At the moment we don't have those. We have strong denial in lots of people that cannabis might cause harm in some people. All the stuff currently being said about LSD, MDMA, ketamine, etc was also said when prozac was introduced. We need to watch out for pharma companies who'll take something that's probably effective in some people (ketamine infusion for people with severe and treatment resistant depression) and rejig it to make it patentable (eskatamine) and repackage it so it can be used much more widely (nasal spray instead of infusion) and marketed much more widely.
  - alexashka 6y ago
    > The point being made is that alcohol is legal, and massively harmful Harmful relative to what? An ideal world where nobody drinks? We've tried idealism via a prohibition and last I checked, that caused so much harm we went back to letting people have a drink. A comparison of drugs vs no drugs ignores reality - we are not lab rats, we live within a society and a little vice lubricates the cogs of society. To deny that this is how it is, was and always will be is not helpful. Your point regarding for-profit companies is valid - the likely solution to that is to control advertising so that it doesn't advertise drugs, as we have already successfully done with cigarettes. The larger point is that there needs to be a balance of individual good vs collective. When society tips too heavily in the direction of collective, drugs/corruption/disobedience/crime will always be a 'problem' because there'll always be people who aren't interested in living to enable arbitrary collective goals somebody has decided everyone else ought to follow. Long story short, it's a balancing act, maaan :)
    - nojokes 6y ago
      Harmful relative to excessive use. The problem is alcohol abuse. It is problem for person health and public order.
globular-toast 6y ago
Rebranding? Mdma always was a medicine. It was rebranded as a narcotic because people were having too much fun with it and found they would rather take a $10 pill for the whole evening with no hangover than spend $40 on alcohol.

It's one thing to acknowledge that alcohol has an affect on stress. But that isn't what this is happening. It would be another thing entirely to REBRAND alcohol as a "therapy tool". FFS.

JumpCrisscross 6y ago

> that isn't what this is happening Of course it is. You have never seen an ad selling some drink as a tool for unwinding after a stressful day? Anything psychologically active can be sold for therapeutic and recreational uses. And anything used for the latter can be abused.

NeutronStar 6y ago
I agree. Anything recreational could also be meant as therapeutic. Anything. Not just drugs.

stickfigure 6y ago

If alcohol was as restricted as MDMA, we just might start calling alcohol a therapy tool. But right now anyone (of legal age) who wants it can order a glass of wine or two, so the people that benefit from it have it. Nobody thinks twice. You sound incredulous that psilocybin or mdma could be therapy tools. Are you a psychologist? Do you have any firsthand experience with these chemicals? Why are you skeptical?

__blockcipher__ 6y ago
The real distinction here is mechanism of action. Psilocybin helps fix psychoemotional problems in an enduring sense. You take one, or three, doses and your personality and self-understanding are permanently altered. Alcohol works acutely. So I totally agree the term therapeutic is an arbitrary label; all drugs have effects and thus can be therapeutic for condition X and deleterious for condition Y. But worth noting that psilocybin and MDMA produce enduring benefits whereas alcohol appears not to.
- bjt2n3904 6y ago
  *Results may vary. Ask your doctor if taking permanent mind altering substances is right for you.
DanBC 6y ago
The point being made is that alcohol is legal, and massively harmful, and the public health measures around alcohol aren't great, and so maybe we need to be cautious when decriminalising and legalising other drugs to ensure that we have some health protections in place. At the moment we don't have those. We have strong denial in lots of people that cannabis might cause harm in some people. All the stuff currently being said about LSD, MDMA, ketamine, etc was also said when prozac was introduced. We need to watch out for pharma companies who'll take something that's probably effective in some people (ketamine infusion for people with severe and treatment resistant depression) and rejig it to make it patentable (eskatamine) and repackage it so it can be used much more widely (nasal spray instead of infusion) and marketed much more widely.
- alexashka 6y ago
  > The point being made is that alcohol is legal, and massively harmful Harmful relative to what? An ideal world where nobody drinks? We've tried idealism via a prohibition and last I checked, that caused so much harm we went back to letting people have a drink. A comparison of drugs vs no drugs ignores reality - we are not lab rats, we live within a society and a little vice lubricates the cogs of society. To deny that this is how it is, was and always will be is not helpful. Your point regarding for-profit companies is valid - the likely solution to that is to control advertising so that it doesn't advertise drugs, as we have already successfully done with cigarettes. The larger point is that there needs to be a balance of individual good vs collective. When society tips too heavily in the direction of collective, drugs/corruption/disobedience/crime will always be a 'problem' because there'll always be people who aren't interested in living to enable arbitrary collective goals somebody has decided everyone else ought to follow. Long story short, it's a balancing act, maaan :)
  - nojokes 6y ago
    Harmful relative to excessive use. The problem is alcohol abuse. It is problem for person health and public order.

globular-toast 6y ago

Rebranding? Mdma always was a medicine. It was rebranded as a narcotic because people were having too much fun with it and found they would rather take a $10 pill for the whole evening with no hangover than spend $40 on alcohol.