Exactly. Basic in 80s micros was effectively the operating system, a more apt comparison in terms of today's technology would be sh/bash: its main purpose is to

Exactly. Basic in 80s micros was effectively the operating system, a more apt comparison in terms of today's technology would be sh/bash: its main purpose is to be a quick interface, and while you certainly can program in it, but I doubt it has more educational value compared to something more structured. I also don't agree with the notion that a more immediate programming environment will cause more people to understand programming/computer science. The notion that there exist machines that you have the power and responsibility to arbitrarily program yourself is the biggest hurdle. I, like many on this board, regard the previous as a profound natural truth. Most people just don't care, it's unrealistic and even a bit paternalistic to assume they will change their preferences if we give them different tools.