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> The Aztecs (or Mexica) also have a written history from before the Europeans came. This might come off as a dick reply, but I kind of doubt that seeing as ho

> The Aztecs (or Mexica) also have a written history from before the Europeans came. This might come off as a dick reply, but I kind of doubt that seeing as how, as far as I know, the Aztecs were an illiterate civilization.

h0l0cube 6y ago
> This might come off as a dick reply Was a bit of a dick reply. You instead might have done a cursory google search, and found that there were not written but pictorial records, which I think is more interesting to the discussion than shutting down someone's comment. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aztec_codices https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aztec_codices
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
LargoLasskhyfv 6y ago
Were they really? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aztec_writing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aztec_writing & https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aztec_codices https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aztec_codices Maybe the masses, but not their priesthood, elites, or such. Similar to ancient egypt, I think. You don't say they were illiterate just because they used cuneiform, or do you?
- Thuggery 6y ago
  > Were they really? I'm no linguist, but every time I've looked into this the answer has been yes. Though there is this weird trend to heavily suggest otherwise even in supposed serious sources, which has given me a major chip on my shoulder on this issue. What they have is proto-writing. The Mayans have full writing, supposedly, and Aztec "script" seems to look like the Mayan's so many assume it must be the same, when it is not at all. Proto-writing pictograms are not at all like cuneiform or Chinese characters. There's no word, for example, for the to be verb in any Aztec script/pictogram. What nouns you can say exist are only what any picture anywhere would have. You can't say "Tototl was feeling despondent on the rainy day of 5th reed" and have someone else read that thought a century later because there are no words to construct a spoken sentence like such. The best you could do is draw a mural with a guy, with rebus device to suggest his name, surrounded by rain, hoping to convey such a sentence. But at that point you're just guessing. It changes things a lot. I was reading the blurb on that Fifth Sun book and they were getting quite romantic suggesting a narrative of the true forgotten story of the Aztec in their own words the Spanish conquerors didn't want you to know! That's so dishonest to a naive audience. Whatever scholarship they are doing it has to be a combination of post-colonial recordings of oral history, post-colonial Spanish or Spanish influenced contemporary writings, and archeology. There is no other way.
  - LargoLasskhyfv 6y ago
    Hm, k. Btw. cuneiform was an error from my side. I meant to say the paintings in this typical strange sideways view.

h0l0cube 6y ago

> This might come off as a dick reply Was a bit of a dick reply. You instead might have done a cursory google search, and found that there were not written but pictorial records, which I think is more interesting to the discussion than shutting down someone's comment. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aztec_codices https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aztec_codices

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]

LargoLasskhyfv 6y ago

Were they really? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aztec_writing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aztec_writing & https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aztec_codices https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aztec_codices Maybe the masses, but not their priesthood, elites, or such. Similar to ancient egypt, I think. You don't say they were illiterate just because they used cuneiform, or do you?

Thuggery 6y ago
> Were they really? I'm no linguist, but every time I've looked into this the answer has been yes. Though there is this weird trend to heavily suggest otherwise even in supposed serious sources, which has given me a major chip on my shoulder on this issue. What they have is proto-writing. The Mayans have full writing, supposedly, and Aztec "script" seems to look like the Mayan's so many assume it must be the same, when it is not at all. Proto-writing pictograms are not at all like cuneiform or Chinese characters. There's no word, for example, for the to be verb in any Aztec script/pictogram. What nouns you can say exist are only what any picture anywhere would have. You can't say "Tototl was feeling despondent on the rainy day of 5th reed" and have someone else read that thought a century later because there are no words to construct a spoken sentence like such. The best you could do is draw a mural with a guy, with rebus device to suggest his name, surrounded by rain, hoping to convey such a sentence. But at that point you're just guessing. It changes things a lot. I was reading the blurb on that Fifth Sun book and they were getting quite romantic suggesting a narrative of the true forgotten story of the Aztec in their own words the Spanish conquerors didn't want you to know! That's so dishonest to a naive audience. Whatever scholarship they are doing it has to be a combination of post-colonial recordings of oral history, post-colonial Spanish or Spanish influenced contemporary writings, and archeology. There is no other way.
- LargoLasskhyfv 6y ago
  Hm, k. Btw. cuneiform was an error from my side. I meant to say the paintings in this typical strange sideways view.