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This article has almost nothing to do with Go in particular. Just...general stuff to follow when writing code. What is it here that talks specific things about

by chimen 6y ago

This article has almost nothing to do with Go in particular. Just...general stuff to follow when writing code. What is it here that talks specific things about "Go" + "in production"?

tsjq 6y ago
Haha. Just to attract more clicks
bsaul 6y ago
There’s an ongoing debate among go dev if the stdlib is enough or not to perform « real world » work (which isn‘t the case in other languages). This article is from someone who think it’s not. That’s interesting.
- marcus_holmes 6y ago
  It's not really a debate. It divides fairly neatly along the lines of "has been writing Go for a couple of years" vs "has come to Go fairly recently". There's a well-trodden path of developers who were trained in PHP/Rails/JS/Django/etc starting on Go. Their first question is always "what framework should I use?" (you can see this being asked at least once a week on r/golang). They then go down that path, and find (what they think to be) Go to be clunky and boring and hard to think about. There's a minority that decide that what Go needs is another framework, because the one they tried obviously isn't working for them. Then there's a split, and some people write articles like this one, and probably move on to Rust or whatever language is next for them. The others start understanding. They refactor their code to not use that logging library because they start to understand the understated power of the stdlib's logging functions. They refactor to get rid of the ORM that's become a problem. Slow realisation dawns and they finally get rid of the framework and go back to writing http.Handlers. This process usually takes a couple of years (well, it did for me anyway). And then our reborn Gopher goes to the forums to spread the light: "all you need is the standard library! You don't need a framework!", and is met by derision and misunderstanding. The Go community gets a reputation for being unjustifiably anti-frameworks and a bit weird about ORMs too. Eventually our hero shrugs their shoulders and lets the newbies find their own path, contenting themselves with upvoting those who understand.
  - waheoo 6y ago
    Some of them move back to PHP once they realise the PHP standard lib is actually rediculously full of helpful tools for web development and the idea of treating individual PHP files and the directory hierarchy as the routing structure makes everything so bloody simple. Pair that with apache and the newer mod php and you have an extremely easy to up and running situation. Development feedback loop is rediculous and everything is simple again. Frameworks need to die.
  - Philip-J-Fry 6y ago
    We use standard library in production. Never had a problem with it. It's performance is great, the http.Handler interface is a great pattern too. I rarely find myself straying far from the standard library. If there's something that takes a bit more code but doesn't bring a dependency then that's what I'll do. I definitely agree that there comes a day where you just see the light and realise that simple is good, the standard library is good, and that you don't need most of the stuff a framework gives you. But it gets really hard convincing others that Go is a great language because it's not Rust. Don't know what there's so much hate for it in this community. I've never fell in love with a language like this before. It's just incredibly productive for me and fits my thinking perfectly.
    - marcus_holmes 6y ago
      agree 100%. This is exactly how I feel about it.
  - st1x7 6y ago
    I'm not a backend developer and I can't comment on the actual framework vs no framework in Go discussion. What I want to say it looks a bit arrogant to portray yourself as this enlightenened person who has seen what would take other people years to understand, and to tell them that you won't bother to convince them but they'll understand one day. There has to be a better way to communicate your point.
    - marcus_holmes 6y ago
waheoo 6y ago
I think it's stuff you need once you move beyond basic learning go projects. I found it pretty useful, the tip about sqlx, echo, and a quick docker file example were useful reminders, the rest ive seen elsewhere but yea. I get what your saying but I found this useful.

by chimen 6y ago

This article has almost nothing to do with Go in particular. Just...general stuff to follow when writing code. What is it here that talks specific things about "Go" + "in production"?

tsjq 6y ago

Haha. Just to attract more clicks

bsaul 6y ago

There’s an ongoing debate among go dev if the stdlib is enough or not to perform « real world » work (which isn‘t the case in other languages). This article is from someone who think it’s not. That’s interesting.

marcus_holmes 6y ago
It's not really a debate. It divides fairly neatly along the lines of "has been writing Go for a couple of years" vs "has come to Go fairly recently". There's a well-trodden path of developers who were trained in PHP/Rails/JS/Django/etc starting on Go. Their first question is always "what framework should I use?" (you can see this being asked at least once a week on r/golang). They then go down that path, and find (what they think to be) Go to be clunky and boring and hard to think about. There's a minority that decide that what Go needs is another framework, because the one they tried obviously isn't working for them. Then there's a split, and some people write articles like this one, and probably move on to Rust or whatever language is next for them. The others start understanding. They refactor their code to not use that logging library because they start to understand the understated power of the stdlib's logging functions. They refactor to get rid of the ORM that's become a problem. Slow realisation dawns and they finally get rid of the framework and go back to writing http.Handlers. This process usually takes a couple of years (well, it did for me anyway). And then our reborn Gopher goes to the forums to spread the light: "all you need is the standard library! You don't need a framework!", and is met by derision and misunderstanding. The Go community gets a reputation for being unjustifiably anti-frameworks and a bit weird about ORMs too. Eventually our hero shrugs their shoulders and lets the newbies find their own path, contenting themselves with upvoting those who understand.
- waheoo 6y ago
  Some of them move back to PHP once they realise the PHP standard lib is actually rediculously full of helpful tools for web development and the idea of treating individual PHP files and the directory hierarchy as the routing structure makes everything so bloody simple. Pair that with apache and the newer mod php and you have an extremely easy to up and running situation. Development feedback loop is rediculous and everything is simple again. Frameworks need to die.
- Philip-J-Fry 6y ago
  We use standard library in production. Never had a problem with it. It's performance is great, the http.Handler interface is a great pattern too. I rarely find myself straying far from the standard library. If there's something that takes a bit more code but doesn't bring a dependency then that's what I'll do. I definitely agree that there comes a day where you just see the light and realise that simple is good, the standard library is good, and that you don't need most of the stuff a framework gives you. But it gets really hard convincing others that Go is a great language because it's not Rust. Don't know what there's so much hate for it in this community. I've never fell in love with a language like this before. It's just incredibly productive for me and fits my thinking perfectly.
  - marcus_holmes 6y ago
    agree 100%. This is exactly how I feel about it.
- st1x7 6y ago
  I'm not a backend developer and I can't comment on the actual framework vs no framework in Go discussion. What I want to say it looks a bit arrogant to portray yourself as this enlightenened person who has seen what would take other people years to understand, and to tell them that you won't bother to convince them but they'll understand one day. There has to be a better way to communicate your point.
  - marcus_holmes 6y ago

waheoo 6y ago

I think it's stuff you need once you move beyond basic learning go projects. I found it pretty useful, the tip about sqlx, echo, and a quick docker file example were useful reminders, the rest ive seen elsewhere but yea. I get what your saying but I found this useful.