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What a stupid idea. After a weekend in nature, you now have to worry, you phone still has power to drive a car. And more stupid, hand over my phone unlocked to

What a stupid idea. After a weekend in nature, you now have to worry, you phone still has power to drive a car. And more stupid, hand over my phone unlocked to the police or to everybody who wanna see the license. More worse, until now, they just checked and it was ok. From now an, everybody is always saved after that in a DB. And why is that more secure? If you cheated until know and showed a false ID, so you show now just a false phone.

lights0123 6y ago
> so you show now just a false phone You'd be sending a message cryptographically signed by the government to someone else's device, so it doesn't matter what's on your screen—if you can't produce that signed message, you can't do anything.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
olyjohn 6y ago
The thing that kills me is the fact that if you are driving your own car, the police already know who you are and if you have a license when you get pulled over. The whole requirement to have a card on you is bogus bullshit, and only serves to make you a criminal if you happen to forget it. If you drive the car of a person who has a suspended license, you will get pulled over. Their ALPR system will automatically flag you, and the officer will tell you that he ran your plates and pulled you over because the owner has a suspended license. That might be a good time to have a physical ID on you to prove you're not the owner. BUT at the same time, if you know your DL number, or even your name and address, there's no reason the cops can't look you up to verify who you are.
- kelnos 6y ago
  > The thing that kills me is the fact that if you are driving your own car, the police already know who you are and if you have a license when you get pulled over. The whole requirement to have a card on you is bogus bullshit, and only serves to make you a criminal if you happen to forget it. It seems pretty common to loan a car to a friend, or to use a car registered to another family member, or to rent a car form either a traditional rental company or a service like Turo. In those instances they have no idea who you are. > If you drive the car of a person who has a suspended license, you will get pulled over. Their ALPR system will automatically flag you, and the officer will tell you that he ran your plates and pulled you over because the owner has a suspended license. I don't find that unreasonable at all. And that's a fine counterexample to your original complaint; in this case it's good that you have a license that you can produce to prove you're not the owner with the suspended license. > BUT at the same time, if you know your DL number, or even your name and address, there's no reason the cops can't look you up to verify who you are. There are all sorts of ways to defeat that. Perhaps you give your sibling's name and address, and your photos look close enough that you get away with it. And why would I bother to memorize my DL number? It's far easier to just carry the card. These sorts of systems and processes are designed to avoid loopholes and make things more certain for the cop. Asking a cop to "just trust you" based on self-provided information also just begs them to decide based on their unconscious (or conscious) biases, which reduces justice for anyone who happens to be a member of an often-discriminated-against group. I think cops should try to be flexible and give people the benefit of the doubt when it's appropriate to do so, but deciding when that's the case isn't always easy, so I'd rather we just require people to carry their license with them when they drive. It's not hard, and if you're going to be assuming responsibility for a one-ton metal and plastic ballistic object traveling fast enough to kill, then you damn well can also take on the responsibility for carrying a physical license. Regardless, out of all the things that the government does that's shady and reeks of wanting to control people's lives, requiring you to carry around a little card with you when you drive a car is not even in the top 100 for me.
kelnos 6y ago
> After a weekend in nature, you now have to worry, you phone still has power to drive a car Who doesn't have a charging cable in their car for their phone?? Also if you're going to be in nature for a weekend, you can opt to carry your physical ID as a backup (or leave it in the car if you're comfortable with that). > hand over my phone unlocked to the police or to everybody who wanna see the license. The article covers this. You never hand over your phone; you send a grant to the other party's device to read only certain bits of information from the ID app. And the article mentions that the right way to implement it on the ID-holder's side is to require PIN/biometric unlock in order to approve the transfer, but then immediately go into a lockdown mode so if the LEO then takes your phone, it'll be locked. > More worse, until now, they just checked and it was ok. From now an, everybody is always saved after that in a DB. That already happens now; if you get pulled over, the cop isn't going to manually read your ID and copy it into their squad car's computer. They scan the barcode on the back and all of it gets sucked in. (Even many bars and convenience stores that sell alcohol will scan the barcode and get way more information than they need.) > And why is that more secure? If you cheated until know and showed a false ID, so you show now just a false phone. Sure, you can borrow someone else's phone, but presumably your photo won't match theirs. And if it's close enough, then yeah, you can probably get away with it. But just because something doesn't close all the loopholes, it doesn't mean it's not worthwhile. A discouragement for this particular thing is that the person you've borrowed the phone from will probably not want to give up their phone for an entire night! Personally, I'm torn on this. If it really would allow me to selectively give only the bits of information from my ID that various parties actually need, that would be nice. But I worry more about how the ID data will be secured on whatever non-government third-party's backend this will inevitably be outsourced to.

lights0123 6y ago

> so you show now just a false phone You'd be sending a message cryptographically signed by the government to someone else's device, so it doesn't matter what's on your screen—if you can't produce that signed message, you can't do anything.

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

olyjohn 6y ago

The thing that kills me is the fact that if you are driving your own car, the police already know who you are and if you have a license when you get pulled over. The whole requirement to have a card on you is bogus bullshit, and only serves to make you a criminal if you happen to forget it. If you drive the car of a person who has a suspended license, you will get pulled over. Their ALPR system will automatically flag you, and the officer will tell you that he ran your plates and pulled you over because the owner has a suspended license. That might be a good time to have a physical ID on you to prove you're not the owner. BUT at the same time, if you know your DL number, or even your name and address, there's no reason the cops can't look you up to verify who you are.

kelnos 6y ago
> The thing that kills me is the fact that if you are driving your own car, the police already know who you are and if you have a license when you get pulled over. The whole requirement to have a card on you is bogus bullshit, and only serves to make you a criminal if you happen to forget it. It seems pretty common to loan a car to a friend, or to use a car registered to another family member, or to rent a car form either a traditional rental company or a service like Turo. In those instances they have no idea who you are. > If you drive the car of a person who has a suspended license, you will get pulled over. Their ALPR system will automatically flag you, and the officer will tell you that he ran your plates and pulled you over because the owner has a suspended license. I don't find that unreasonable at all. And that's a fine counterexample to your original complaint; in this case it's good that you have a license that you can produce to prove you're not the owner with the suspended license. > BUT at the same time, if you know your DL number, or even your name and address, there's no reason the cops can't look you up to verify who you are. There are all sorts of ways to defeat that. Perhaps you give your sibling's name and address, and your photos look close enough that you get away with it. And why would I bother to memorize my DL number? It's far easier to just carry the card. These sorts of systems and processes are designed to avoid loopholes and make things more certain for the cop. Asking a cop to "just trust you" based on self-provided information also just begs them to decide based on their unconscious (or conscious) biases, which reduces justice for anyone who happens to be a member of an often-discriminated-against group. I think cops should try to be flexible and give people the benefit of the doubt when it's appropriate to do so, but deciding when that's the case isn't always easy, so I'd rather we just require people to carry their license with them when they drive. It's not hard, and if you're going to be assuming responsibility for a one-ton metal and plastic ballistic object traveling fast enough to kill, then you damn well can also take on the responsibility for carrying a physical license. Regardless, out of all the things that the government does that's shady and reeks of wanting to control people's lives, requiring you to carry around a little card with you when you drive a car is not even in the top 100 for me.

kelnos 6y ago

> After a weekend in nature, you now have to worry, you phone still has power to drive a car Who doesn't have a charging cable in their car for their phone?? Also if you're going to be in nature for a weekend, you can opt to carry your physical ID as a backup (or leave it in the car if you're comfortable with that). > hand over my phone unlocked to the police or to everybody who wanna see the license. The article covers this. You never hand over your phone; you send a grant to the other party's device to read only certain bits of information from the ID app. And the article mentions that the right way to implement it on the ID-holder's side is to require PIN/biometric unlock in order to approve the transfer, but then immediately go into a lockdown mode so if the LEO then takes your phone, it'll be locked. > More worse, until now, they just checked and it was ok. From now an, everybody is always saved after that in a DB. That already happens now; if you get pulled over, the cop isn't going to manually read your ID and copy it into their squad car's computer. They scan the barcode on the back and all of it gets sucked in. (Even many bars and convenience stores that sell alcohol will scan the barcode and get way more information than they need.) > And why is that more secure? If you cheated until know and showed a false ID, so you show now just a false phone. Sure, you can borrow someone else's phone, but presumably your photo won't match theirs. And if it's close enough, then yeah, you can probably get away with it. But just because something doesn't close all the loopholes, it doesn't mean it's not worthwhile. A discouragement for this particular thing is that the person you've borrowed the phone from will probably not want to give up their phone for an entire night! Personally, I'm torn on this. If it really would allow me to selectively give only the bits of information from my ID that various parties actually need, that would be nice. But I worry more about how the ID data will be secured on whatever non-government third-party's backend this will inevitably be outsourced to.