4 ms·

I used to work at Google and the "class system" was something that grated on me from time to time. I didn't know any yellow badge folks myself, and was ignoran

by neilk 16y ago

I used to work at Google and the "class system" was something that grated on me from time to time. I didn't know any yellow badge folks myself, and was ignorant of their existence, just as the article mentions. But red badges (contractors) are ubiquitous. In one case they fired all the QA contractors and made them reapply for their own jobs -- we're talking about people who had deep knowledge of certain projects, who'd been on certain teams for years, who were valued contributors, people who we didn't want to lose. But because they had a red badge, they were subject to petty whims of bureaucrats from on high, unlike white badges. At least on my team, almost all red badge QA contractors were of Indian origin, and often female. Now that's not very different from how a normal company works. But Google just made the distinction difficult to ignore since white badges had so many privileges, including, for engineers, the right to reallocate themselves, or to exploit the famous 20% time. Google's image is that they are pioneering a different way of working, with more workplace democracy, but the truth is that these privileges are limited to as few employees as they can get away with. And of course, the biggest class division has to do with the people who do physical labor and sanitation. I tend to work after hours and I also tend to talk to people even if they're supposed to be "invisible", so I've had conversations with some of the workers. (Ironically, one conversation conducted using Google Translate). That person emptying your wastebasket might be qualified to do nursing back in her home country. Oh, and it might amuse Yahoo employees to know that their recycling program is a complete sham -- everything is emptied into the same trash containers anyway, and the workers are forbidden from taking the cans away to cash in themselves.

Unseelie 16y ago
Slight point of interest, do you mean the recycling at Yahoo is a sham, or that it would amuse Yahoo employees to know that Google's recycling is a sham?
- neilk 16y ago
  I should explain, I've worked at both Yahoo and Google. Yahoo's recycling program is a sham, at least for Mission College circa 2007. I don't know about Google. I've told people about the qualified nurse working emptying wastepaper baskets, but the thing that always makes Silicon Valley nerds go apoplectic is learning that their hard work putting soda cans into the blue container was all for nothing.
yanw 16y ago
For crying out loud, it's not a "class system" it's company hierarchy. Contract workers are not employees they are temporary hired hands they get fired and reallocated on company whim for company purposes, that is the nature of their jobs, they are easier to fire and hire than full time 401k employees. Not everyone gets the company car home with them. What disturbs me is that you keep pointing to the fact that they are mostly minorities as if Google deliberately chose minority workers for these jobs, the sad fact is that these low end jobs are typically occupied by minorities.
- sundae79 16y ago
  If its not a class system, whats the need for color coding badges? Don't you think an electronic badge will prevent and authorize access no matter what color it is.
  - neilk 16y ago
    It's so that security guards and others can enforce area bans just by looking at your badge. For instance, some gatherings might be open only to white badges, some to white + green, the shuttle probably isn't available to yellow badges, etc.
    - sundae79 16y ago
      Why do you need security guards to enforce when your badge is electronic(RFID). You swipe your badge everywhere you enter(including cafes inside buildings for which you swipe your badge to enter), especially in a company that is tech oriented. I dont think anyone with a white badge enter without swiping.
      - jlees 16y ago
        there are areas (eg. meetings in cafes) where you don't have to swipe through a security door to get in. these are policed by physical security.
  - yanw 16y ago
ender7 16y ago
Good things to think about if you work for just about any large company. Staying late is a great opportunity to meet the people who work daily for your benefit. You might be pretty surprised with the conversations you end up having. My 2AM talks with our lab's cleaning lady were a surprisingly significant factor in successfully getting through my thesis. That said, I don't think it's unfair to pay people a standard wage for their particular job, even if others nearby are being paid more for a different job (I'm lumping various perks in with salary to form a general concept of "payment"). This does create an unfortunate sense of division between those who have them and those who don't, but then again I don't think the average janitor is really craving a daily massage. If this division truly bothers you, there are two great ways to help employees with menial jobs while maintaining a practical respect for the laws of salaries and supply and demand. First: give them healthcare. Second: help pay for their education, or the education of their children. These are far more expensive than access to the company gym, but they're also far more effective.
- gtirloni 16y ago
  "I don't think the average janitor is really craving a daily massage." -- He/She is a human being and has as much right as the next person to want a massage (more so because he/she does physical work). If I'm at home having a soda and the cleaning lady is in the same room, it feels awkward not to offer it to her. In this sense, the workplace is a big room with everybody in it.. it feels weird that some people have access to perks that others don't. So if I'm taking a limo home or getting a free soda and others can't... it just takes the joy of that luxury away. I would feel embarrassed about it and wouldn't want to use that benefit as often anymore. At my work we've free sodas but I've seen people looking weird at the cleaning staff for taking sodas from the fridge. Why? I don't know and it's just disgusting. Probably my mom is to blame for all of this thinking. Whenever I got a pack of Cheetos she would say "have you offered it to your friends already?". We spent most of our time at work so, for me, it feels normal to extend to it the same "rules" I've at home. By the way, I'm not saying people should have the same salary even though they do different work. Everybody should be paid according to his/her skills. What I'm talking is about the amenities that try to make the workplace a better place. They should be offered to everyone or no one.

by neilk 16y ago

Unseelie 16y ago

Slight point of interest, do you mean the recycling at Yahoo is a sham, or that it would amuse Yahoo employees to know that Google's recycling is a sham?

neilk 16y ago
I should explain, I've worked at both Yahoo and Google. Yahoo's recycling program is a sham, at least for Mission College circa 2007. I don't know about Google. I've told people about the qualified nurse working emptying wastepaper baskets, but the thing that always makes Silicon Valley nerds go apoplectic is learning that their hard work putting soda cans into the blue container was all for nothing.

yanw 16y ago

For crying out loud, it's not a "class system" it's company hierarchy. Contract workers are not employees they are temporary hired hands they get fired and reallocated on company whim for company purposes, that is the nature of their jobs, they are easier to fire and hire than full time 401k employees. Not everyone gets the company car home with them. What disturbs me is that you keep pointing to the fact that they are mostly minorities as if Google deliberately chose minority workers for these jobs, the sad fact is that these low end jobs are typically occupied by minorities.

sundae79 16y ago
If its not a class system, whats the need for color coding badges? Don't you think an electronic badge will prevent and authorize access no matter what color it is.
- neilk 16y ago
  It's so that security guards and others can enforce area bans just by looking at your badge. For instance, some gatherings might be open only to white badges, some to white + green, the shuttle probably isn't available to yellow badges, etc.
  - sundae79 16y ago
    Why do you need security guards to enforce when your badge is electronic(RFID). You swipe your badge everywhere you enter(including cafes inside buildings for which you swipe your badge to enter), especially in a company that is tech oriented. I dont think anyone with a white badge enter without swiping.
    - jlees 16y ago
      there are areas (eg. meetings in cafes) where you don't have to swipe through a security door to get in. these are policed by physical security.
- yanw 16y ago

ender7 16y ago

Good things to think about if you work for just about any large company. Staying late is a great opportunity to meet the people who work daily for your benefit. You might be pretty surprised with the conversations you end up having. My 2AM talks with our lab's cleaning lady were a surprisingly significant factor in successfully getting through my thesis. That said, I don't think it's unfair to pay people a standard wage for their particular job, even if others nearby are being paid more for a different job (I'm lumping various perks in with salary to form a general concept of "payment"). This does create an unfortunate sense of division between those who have them and those who don't, but then again I don't think the average janitor is really craving a daily massage. If this division truly bothers you, there are two great ways to help employees with menial jobs while maintaining a practical respect for the laws of salaries and supply and demand. First: give them healthcare. Second: help pay for their education, or the education of their children. These are far more expensive than access to the company gym, but they're also far more effective.

gtirloni 16y ago
"I don't think the average janitor is really craving a daily massage." -- He/She is a human being and has as much right as the next person to want a massage (more so because he/she does physical work). If I'm at home having a soda and the cleaning lady is in the same room, it feels awkward not to offer it to her. In this sense, the workplace is a big room with everybody in it.. it feels weird that some people have access to perks that others don't. So if I'm taking a limo home or getting a free soda and others can't... it just takes the joy of that luxury away. I would feel embarrassed about it and wouldn't want to use that benefit as often anymore. At my work we've free sodas but I've seen people looking weird at the cleaning staff for taking sodas from the fridge. Why? I don't know and it's just disgusting. Probably my mom is to blame for all of this thinking. Whenever I got a pack of Cheetos she would say "have you offered it to your friends already?". We spent most of our time at work so, for me, it feels normal to extend to it the same "rules" I've at home. By the way, I'm not saying people should have the same salary even though they do different work. Everybody should be paid according to his/her skills. What I'm talking is about the amenities that try to make the workplace a better place. They should be offered to everyone or no one.