4 ms·

This is horrible, it should remain a card. Why should a cell phone, or any technological device now be required for participation in society or to validate your

This is horrible, it should remain a card. Why should a cell phone, or any technological device now be required for participation in society or to validate yourself to any government official? At that point, where do you draw the line of privacy? You're carrying with you an object that you can't trust 100% and can work against you anytime. This is truly chilling dystopian type stuff. Soon a cell phone will be required for every "person."

diebeforei485 6y ago
But why? Why do people have to carry a wallet everywhere, unless they want to? I have my payment cards on my watch. Pre-pandemic, my gym membership card was on my watch. If I had my ID on my watch as well, I don't ever have to worry about a wallet being stolen because I wouldn't carry one. Sure, people can steal your watch at gunpoint- but it can be remotely disabled (even if you were forced to give your passcode under duress), and you'd still have a physical ID card at home you can use.
- rmrfstar 6y ago
  What if you had a serious business dispute with Apple or Google, and were (justifiably) uncomfortable walking around with a mobile bug running software of their choosing? [1] For most people on this site, this kind of threat is far more likely than the mugging you described. [1] https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2018/mar/16/silicon-valley-internal-work-spying-surveillance-leakers https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2018/mar/16/silicon-v...
  - austhrow743 6y ago
    Then 1. Keep using a drivers licence in card form. 2. If you want to use it in phone form instead despite your dispute with google and apple, have it on a phone thats not made by google or apple. 3. If you insist on using a google or apple phone for your drivers licence phone app despite your dispute with google and apple, just leave it off after putting your licence on it except for when you need your licence, and don't connect it to the internet.
  - lern_too_spel 6y ago
    There is a standard that allows you to make a compatible implementation on a device without Apple or Google software.
    - AlexandrB 6y ago
      Which device would that be? This is pure interoperability theatre by a duopoly.
  - diebeforei485 6y ago
    Presumably you aren't in dispute with everyone, so you can use a phone from a company other than the one you're in dispute with. Eg. If you're an ex-Google employee or contractor, use a personal iPhone without any Google apps on them.
as_keyof_typeof 6y ago
Yes, I think so too. I am professionally a SWE but more and more I feel like a Luddite, and more and more distant from the predominant HN demographic.
- rootsudo 6y ago
  Same, more and more I feel pariah because I don't praise big tech, I don't buy the new product and I don't talk about new features. Maybe that's just the marketing working on 11 and I'm to tuned in, or maybe everyone is into it and I'm the one that doesn't care.
swiley 6y ago
> can work against you anytime. Often does work against you really.
aeternum 6y ago
It can be encrypted by a key held within the phone's TPM so it is up to you whether or not to unlock the phone and launch the app that allows the car to be scanned.
hansjorg 6y ago
The techno-fetishists are taking over. The kind of people whose reaction to dystopian sci-fi is, "I want those cool gadgets".
- toomuchtodo 6y ago
  A tool is not dystopian, only its usage. This is no more dystopian than Apple Pay, as long as it isn’t mandated and data access and storage is appropriately regulated.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
dgrin91 6y ago
I dont think this standard makes a phone a requirement. It just provides a new option. Is having a computer a requirement to be part of modern society? It certainly helps, and the vast majority of people use them for the convivence, but its not required.
wtfrmyinitials 6y ago
If I recall correctly, Moxie Marlinspike did a great talk about this idea years ago. How things like having a cell phone are theoretically “optional” yet to be normally integrated into today’s society entirely requires it. This is especially true in these covid-times.
- rmrfstar 6y ago
  "Changing Threats to Privacy" at Defcon 18.

diebeforei485 6y ago

But why? Why do people have to carry a wallet everywhere, unless they want to? I have my payment cards on my watch. Pre-pandemic, my gym membership card was on my watch. If I had my ID on my watch as well, I don't ever have to worry about a wallet being stolen because I wouldn't carry one. Sure, people can steal your watch at gunpoint- but it can be remotely disabled (even if you were forced to give your passcode under duress), and you'd still have a physical ID card at home you can use.

rmrfstar 6y ago
What if you had a serious business dispute with Apple or Google, and were (justifiably) uncomfortable walking around with a mobile bug running software of their choosing? [1] For most people on this site, this kind of threat is far more likely than the mugging you described. [1] https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2018/mar/16/silicon-valley-internal-work-spying-surveillance-leakers https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2018/mar/16/silicon-v...
- austhrow743 6y ago
  Then 1. Keep using a drivers licence in card form. 2. If you want to use it in phone form instead despite your dispute with google and apple, have it on a phone thats not made by google or apple. 3. If you insist on using a google or apple phone for your drivers licence phone app despite your dispute with google and apple, just leave it off after putting your licence on it except for when you need your licence, and don't connect it to the internet.
- lern_too_spel 6y ago
  There is a standard that allows you to make a compatible implementation on a device without Apple or Google software.
  - AlexandrB 6y ago
    Which device would that be? This is pure interoperability theatre by a duopoly.
- diebeforei485 6y ago
  Presumably you aren't in dispute with everyone, so you can use a phone from a company other than the one you're in dispute with. Eg. If you're an ex-Google employee or contractor, use a personal iPhone without any Google apps on them.

as_keyof_typeof 6y ago

Yes, I think so too. I am professionally a SWE but more and more I feel like a Luddite, and more and more distant from the predominant HN demographic.

rootsudo 6y ago
Same, more and more I feel pariah because I don't praise big tech, I don't buy the new product and I don't talk about new features. Maybe that's just the marketing working on 11 and I'm to tuned in, or maybe everyone is into it and I'm the one that doesn't care.

swiley 6y ago

> can work against you anytime. Often does work against you really.

aeternum 6y ago

It can be encrypted by a key held within the phone's TPM so it is up to you whether or not to unlock the phone and launch the app that allows the car to be scanned.

hansjorg 6y ago

The techno-fetishists are taking over. The kind of people whose reaction to dystopian sci-fi is, "I want those cool gadgets".

toomuchtodo 6y ago
A tool is not dystopian, only its usage. This is no more dystopian than Apple Pay, as long as it isn’t mandated and data access and storage is appropriately regulated.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]

dgrin91 6y ago

I dont think this standard makes a phone a requirement. It just provides a new option. Is having a computer a requirement to be part of modern society? It certainly helps, and the vast majority of people use them for the convivence, but its not required.

wtfrmyinitials 6y ago

If I recall correctly, Moxie Marlinspike did a great talk about this idea years ago. How things like having a cell phone are theoretically “optional” yet to be normally integrated into today’s society entirely requires it. This is especially true in these covid-times.

rmrfstar 6y ago
"Changing Threats to Privacy" at Defcon 18.