4 ms·

Reversed in no time at all. This sort of thing often happens when American companies operate outside of America and forget that cultural differences can be pre

by mabbo 6y ago

Reversed in no time at all. This sort of thing often happens when American companies operate outside of America and forget that cultural differences can be pretty significant. The very idea of banning a Canadian from wearing a poppy during November is, to my Canadian-culturally-raised-brain, an insane thought. Doug Ford said he would pass a law that made banning them illegal and honestly I suspect he'd get unanimous support from his legislature, most of whom loathe him. You can't just apply American norms everywhere.

vermontdevil 6y ago
Whole Foods need to learn that the American version of "flair" on uniforms is not the same as wearing a poppy in Canada or UK etc.
reaperducer 6y ago
when American companies operate outside of America According to the article, it was one Canadian employee told by one Canadian supervisor that this was a no-go. There was no "Poppies is bad!" memo from Austin or Seattle. It was how a single Canadian manager chose to interpret the dress code. In other words, if it wasn't for the internet outrage industry, this would be much ado about nothing. Further along in the article it shows the problem is provincial law, not the policy of an American company: Wearing a poppy could be considered a display of a political belief, according to employment lawyer Alex Lucifero with the firm Samfiru Tumarkin, and thus, would not be protected under the Human Rights Code in Ontario.
- jjeaff 6y ago
  Lucifero: seems a little too on the nose for an attorney's surname. :)
- Hello71 6y ago
  > According to the article, it was one Canadian employee told by one Canadian supervisor that this was a no-go. There was no "Poppies is bad!" memo from Austin or Seattle. It was how a single Canadian manager chose to interpret the dress code. This is egregious cherry-picking from the article. While one sentence says "An employee of the Whole Foods in Ottawa says", the previous paragraph says "U.S.-based Whole Foods Market says poppies aren't allowed [...] which affects employees at its 14 locations across Canada", and the one before that (the first in the article) says "a national grocery store chain has banned its employees from wearing the symbol of remembrance". Later, the article says "A poppy does not comply with that policy, the company confirmed", referring to Whole Foods, not any specific location. The sentence that you're quoting, read with any context whatsoever, is clearly anecdotal evidence provided to support the claim that Whole Foods both has a policy against wearing poppies, and is enforcing that policy in at least one store. > Further along in the article it shows the problem is provincial law I don't know what the hell you're going on about here. "would not be protected" is vastly different from "is not permitted". This sentence merely clarifies that Whole Foods' action is not explicitly illegal, not that it is required under any law.
  - DharmaPolice 6y ago
    Even after reading this story twice and the follow up article (where Whole Foods "backed down") I'm still not clear what has happened in this case. Great journalism. This article quotes the employee directly but the companies statements are noticeably not direct quotes. The bit you mentioned "A poppy does not comply with that policy, the company confirmed" is not given any context. Confirmed to who? When? The original employee? Did CBC ask them to comment? Who did they speak to? In the follow-up article [0] which is framed as "Whole Foods reverse their ban" they do actually have a quote from a spokesperson who says "Our intention was never to single out the poppy or to suggest a lack of support for Remembrance Day". So if they didn't single out Poppies was this just a blanket ban on all "cause/political" adjustments to uniform that Poppies were included in (because a foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of simple minds)? Or did they send out an email to all staff saying "Don't wear a Poppy because we hate our nation's war dead and their sacrifice" but thanks to the righteous fury of the Canadian people and Christians in general they've been defeated. Or more likely some awkward position in the middle? The context really matters. Clearly this is a non-story either way but it's a classic example of events being given without sufficient context and intended to generate outrage (4k comments and counting on the news site). Later people will remember that time when Whole Foods banned Poppies and it took a massive campaign to get them to change their mind...11 hours later. Big companies do sometimes double down on seemingly unpopular policies in these kinds of cases (British Airways were sued and lost in the European Court of Human Rights because they penalised a Christian woman who refused to cover up religious jewellery [1]) but that's the exception. Mostly the policy (if it ever existed) is quietly amended or reinterpreted. 0 - https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/whole-foods-poppies-allowed-1.5793069 https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/whole-foods-poppies-al... 1 - https://www.bailii.org/eu/cases/ECHR/2013/37.html https://www.bailii.org/eu/cases/ECHR/2013/37.html
- marcinzm 6y ago
  >Further along in the article it shows the problem is provincial law, not the policy of an American company: That is, as I read it, merely saying that the provincial law allows them to ban wearing it not that it requires them to ban it. So the issue is very much with the company and not with the law unless you're saying that we're only allowed to complain about things that are illegal?
jameshush 6y ago
As someone who grew up in Canada too you're right. Example of an American company not "reading the room". Wearing a poppy in November is as Canadian as buying a double double at a drive through in Tim Hortons on your way to work.
a-priori 6y ago
In fact I didn't realize until recently that this was a Canadian thing and that Americans don't wear a poppy.
- driverdan 6y ago
  It's not just Canadian. I've seen and worn poppies in the US. But I don't think it's as well known or as big of a deal.
- dx87 6y ago
  I found out that some get very touchy when you don't know what it represents. I was doing a joint training exercise that included brits and canadians, and one day they started wearing poppy pins. We asked them why they were wearing flower pins on their uniforms, and they reacted like we'd shit on a war memorial.
chadlavi 6y ago
It’s very far from being an American norm to ban people from wearing signs of support for the military or veterans. Liberal causes will often get you harassed, but this is the country that invented yellow ribbon bumper stickers.
xoxoy 6y ago
Confused why this is news now. Did Whole Foods just enter Canada in the last year or something?

by mabbo 6y ago

vermontdevil 6y ago

Whole Foods need to learn that the American version of "flair" on uniforms is not the same as wearing a poppy in Canada or UK etc.

reaperducer 6y ago

when American companies operate outside of America According to the article, it was one Canadian employee told by one Canadian supervisor that this was a no-go. There was no "Poppies is bad!" memo from Austin or Seattle. It was how a single Canadian manager chose to interpret the dress code. In other words, if it wasn't for the internet outrage industry, this would be much ado about nothing. Further along in the article it shows the problem is provincial law, not the policy of an American company: Wearing a poppy could be considered a display of a political belief, according to employment lawyer Alex Lucifero with the firm Samfiru Tumarkin, and thus, would not be protected under the Human Rights Code in Ontario.

jjeaff 6y ago
Lucifero: seems a little too on the nose for an attorney's surname. :)
Hello71 6y ago
> According to the article, it was one Canadian employee told by one Canadian supervisor that this was a no-go. There was no "Poppies is bad!" memo from Austin or Seattle. It was how a single Canadian manager chose to interpret the dress code. This is egregious cherry-picking from the article. While one sentence says "An employee of the Whole Foods in Ottawa says", the previous paragraph says "U.S.-based Whole Foods Market says poppies aren't allowed [...] which affects employees at its 14 locations across Canada", and the one before that (the first in the article) says "a national grocery store chain has banned its employees from wearing the symbol of remembrance". Later, the article says "A poppy does not comply with that policy, the company confirmed", referring to Whole Foods, not any specific location. The sentence that you're quoting, read with any context whatsoever, is clearly anecdotal evidence provided to support the claim that Whole Foods both has a policy against wearing poppies, and is enforcing that policy in at least one store. > Further along in the article it shows the problem is provincial law I don't know what the hell you're going on about here. "would not be protected" is vastly different from "is not permitted". This sentence merely clarifies that Whole Foods' action is not explicitly illegal, not that it is required under any law.
- DharmaPolice 6y ago
  Even after reading this story twice and the follow up article (where Whole Foods "backed down") I'm still not clear what has happened in this case. Great journalism. This article quotes the employee directly but the companies statements are noticeably not direct quotes. The bit you mentioned "A poppy does not comply with that policy, the company confirmed" is not given any context. Confirmed to who? When? The original employee? Did CBC ask them to comment? Who did they speak to? In the follow-up article [0] which is framed as "Whole Foods reverse their ban" they do actually have a quote from a spokesperson who says "Our intention was never to single out the poppy or to suggest a lack of support for Remembrance Day". So if they didn't single out Poppies was this just a blanket ban on all "cause/political" adjustments to uniform that Poppies were included in (because a foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of simple minds)? Or did they send out an email to all staff saying "Don't wear a Poppy because we hate our nation's war dead and their sacrifice" but thanks to the righteous fury of the Canadian people and Christians in general they've been defeated. Or more likely some awkward position in the middle? The context really matters. Clearly this is a non-story either way but it's a classic example of events being given without sufficient context and intended to generate outrage (4k comments and counting on the news site). Later people will remember that time when Whole Foods banned Poppies and it took a massive campaign to get them to change their mind...11 hours later. Big companies do sometimes double down on seemingly unpopular policies in these kinds of cases (British Airways were sued and lost in the European Court of Human Rights because they penalised a Christian woman who refused to cover up religious jewellery [1]) but that's the exception. Mostly the policy (if it ever existed) is quietly amended or reinterpreted. 0 - https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/whole-foods-poppies-allowed-1.5793069 https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/whole-foods-poppies-al... 1 - https://www.bailii.org/eu/cases/ECHR/2013/37.html https://www.bailii.org/eu/cases/ECHR/2013/37.html
marcinzm 6y ago
>Further along in the article it shows the problem is provincial law, not the policy of an American company: That is, as I read it, merely saying that the provincial law allows them to ban wearing it not that it requires them to ban it. So the issue is very much with the company and not with the law unless you're saying that we're only allowed to complain about things that are illegal?

jameshush 6y ago

As someone who grew up in Canada too you're right. Example of an American company not "reading the room". Wearing a poppy in November is as Canadian as buying a double double at a drive through in Tim Hortons on your way to work.

a-priori 6y ago

In fact I didn't realize until recently that this was a Canadian thing and that Americans don't wear a poppy.

driverdan 6y ago
It's not just Canadian. I've seen and worn poppies in the US. But I don't think it's as well known or as big of a deal.
dx87 6y ago
I found out that some get very touchy when you don't know what it represents. I was doing a joint training exercise that included brits and canadians, and one day they started wearing poppy pins. We asked them why they were wearing flower pins on their uniforms, and they reacted like we'd shit on a war memorial.

chadlavi 6y ago

It’s very far from being an American norm to ban people from wearing signs of support for the military or veterans. Liberal causes will often get you harassed, but this is the country that invented yellow ribbon bumper stickers.

xoxoy 6y ago

Confused why this is news now. Did Whole Foods just enter Canada in the last year or something?