8 ms·

> No person shall circumvent a technological measure that effectively controls access to a work protected under this title. https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/

> No person shall circumvent a technological measure that effectively controls access to a work protected under this title. https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/17/1201 https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/17/1201

emayljames 6y ago
Key word that makes the claim fall apart is effective. If the RIAA where to win, then it would mean just opening a URL would give the site owner grounds to file proceedings. An example being a DB being left open to the internet, that has sensitive data, the DB owner would be able to file a case if you just opened the DB.
- Buttons840 6y ago
  And when defining "effective" we should not only consider YouTube, but also the software protecting that one guy's personal collection of over 9000 movies that he has exposed to the web for his own personal use. For example, if YouTube has effective DRM. Then I suppose I should be good to throw up all the latest Disney movies on my personal website, for personal viewing, behind that same effective DRM, right?
Arch-TK 6y ago
The "technological measure" doesn't "effectively" control anything. You can circumvent it using the inspect element feature of any modern browser. yt-dl "cirucmvents" it by executing the javascript (the same thing your web browser does). At this rate V8 is going to get DMCAd for the same reason.
- Rizz 6y ago
  Effectively of course means "in effect" in this context, for example YouTube doesn't have to prove the measure was designed to limit access, only that it does in some way. Pretending yt-dl simply does what YouTube does is obviously not true either, because if it did, then yt-dl wouldn't exist. The copyright holder decided he would allow the streaming of the work, if you want to download it you should either get the ok from the copyright holder for that or choose another work to download, or even make one yourself. V8 doesn't change that.
  - Rochus 6y ago
    > Effectively of course means "in effect" in this context No, it means "in an effective manner"; that's also how it is specified in European legal languages (which have more different words with less ambiguity); the effectiveness must be an objectively ascertainable characteristic of the technology, not simply an (unsubstantiated) claim by the claimant; A "mock protection" would not be protected by the law. > because if it did, then yt-dl wouldn't exist. You mix up design decisions made by Youtube with copyright law. Even if Youtube requires users to not download videos in their terms of services this has nothing to do with copyright law and the DMCA based actions.
    - Rizz 6y ago
      In European law it specifically states: Technological measures shall be deemed 'effective' where the use of a protected work or other subject matter is controlled by the rights holders through application of an access control or protection process, such as encryption, scrambling or other transformation of the work or other subject-matter or a copy control mechanism, which achieves the protection objective. There is no provision for effectiveness in any other sense than what I claimed.
      - Rochus 6y ago
        WIPO WCT treaty article 11 (see https://www.wipo.int/treaties/en/text.jsp?file_id=295166#P56_5626 https://www.wipo.int/treaties/en/text.jsp?file_id=295166#P56...): Contracting Parties shall provide adequate legal protection and effective legal remedies against the circumvention of effective technological measures that are used by authors in connection with the exercise of their rights under this Treaty or the Berne Convention and that restrict acts, in respect of their works, which are not authorized by the authors concerned or permitted by law. DIRECTIVE 2001/29/EC OF THE EUROPEAN PARLIAMENT AND OF THE COUNCIL of 22 May 2001 (see https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=CELEX%3A02001L0029-20190606 https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=CELEX%3A...) article 6, paragraph 3: what you quoted. RICHTLINIE 2001/29/EG DES EUROPÄISCHEN PARLAMENTS UND DES RATES vom 22. Mai 2001 (see https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/DE/TXT/?uri=CELEX%3A02001L0029-20190606 https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/DE/TXT/?uri=CELEX%3A...) Artikel 6, Paragraph 1: quote "gegen die Umgehung wirksamer technischer Maßnahmen", Paragraph 3: "Technische Maßnahmen sind als „wirksam“ anzusehen, soweit die Nutzung eines geschützten Werks oder eines sonstigen Schutzgegenstands von den Rechtsinhabern durch eine Zugangskontrolle oder einen Schutzmechanismus wie Verschlüsselung, Verzerrung oder sonstige Umwandlung des Werks oder sonstigen Schutzgegenstands oder einen Mechanismus zur Kontrolle der Vervielfältigung, die die Erreichung des Schutzziels sicherstellen, unter Kontrolle gehalten wird. DIRECTIVE 2001/29/CE DU PARLEMENT EUROPÉEN ET DU CONSEIL du 22 mai (see 2001https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/FR/TXT/?uri=CELEX%3A02001L0029-20190606 https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/FR/TXT/?uri=CELEX%3A...) Article 1: "le contournement de toute mesure technique efficace" and "Les mesures techniques sont réputées efficaces lorsque l'utilisation d'une œuvre protégée, ou celle d'un autre objet protégé, est contrôlée par les titulaires du droit grâce à l'application d'un code d'accès ou d'un procédé de protection, tel que le cryptage, le brouillage ou toute autre transformation de l'œuvre ou de l'objet protégé ou d'un mécanisme de contrôle de copie qui atteint cet objectif de protection." plus another 22 translations. German national law: "Wirksame technische Maßnahmen zum Schutz eines nach diesem Gesetz geschützten Werkes", see https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/urhg/__95a.html https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/urhg/__95a.html Swiss national law: "wirksame technische Massnahmen", https://www.admin.ch/opc/de/classified-compilation/19920251/index.html#fn-#a69a-1 https://www.admin.ch/opc/de/classified-compilation/19920251/... So the laws in general only apply to technical measures objectively (i.e. corresponding to the state of the art) able to protect legal rights in an effective manner. Measures which are not considered effective cannot claim legal protection. "technological measures in effect" (as you proposed) means "technische Maßnahmen in der Tat angewandt" in German or "les mesures technologiques en vigueur" in French which is not the same as "wirksame technische Massnahmen" or "de toute mesure technique efficace" or "effective technological measures"

emayljames 6y ago

Key word that makes the claim fall apart is effective. If the RIAA where to win, then it would mean just opening a URL would give the site owner grounds to file proceedings. An example being a DB being left open to the internet, that has sensitive data, the DB owner would be able to file a case if you just opened the DB.

Buttons840 6y ago
And when defining "effective" we should not only consider YouTube, but also the software protecting that one guy's personal collection of over 9000 movies that he has exposed to the web for his own personal use. For example, if YouTube has effective DRM. Then I suppose I should be good to throw up all the latest Disney movies on my personal website, for personal viewing, behind that same effective DRM, right?

Arch-TK 6y ago

The "technological measure" doesn't "effectively" control anything. You can circumvent it using the inspect element feature of any modern browser. yt-dl "cirucmvents" it by executing the javascript (the same thing your web browser does). At this rate V8 is going to get DMCAd for the same reason.

Rizz 6y ago
Effectively of course means "in effect" in this context, for example YouTube doesn't have to prove the measure was designed to limit access, only that it does in some way. Pretending yt-dl simply does what YouTube does is obviously not true either, because if it did, then yt-dl wouldn't exist. The copyright holder decided he would allow the streaming of the work, if you want to download it you should either get the ok from the copyright holder for that or choose another work to download, or even make one yourself. V8 doesn't change that.
- Rochus 6y ago
  > Effectively of course means "in effect" in this context No, it means "in an effective manner"; that's also how it is specified in European legal languages (which have more different words with less ambiguity); the effectiveness must be an objectively ascertainable characteristic of the technology, not simply an (unsubstantiated) claim by the claimant; A "mock protection" would not be protected by the law. > because if it did, then yt-dl wouldn't exist. You mix up design decisions made by Youtube with copyright law. Even if Youtube requires users to not download videos in their terms of services this has nothing to do with copyright law and the DMCA based actions.
  - Rizz 6y ago
    In European law it specifically states: Technological measures shall be deemed 'effective' where the use of a protected work or other subject matter is controlled by the rights holders through application of an access control or protection process, such as encryption, scrambling or other transformation of the work or other subject-matter or a copy control mechanism, which achieves the protection objective. There is no provision for effectiveness in any other sense than what I claimed.
    - Rochus 6y ago
      WIPO WCT treaty article 11 (see https://www.wipo.int/treaties/en/text.jsp?file_id=295166#P56_5626 https://www.wipo.int/treaties/en/text.jsp?file_id=295166#P56...): Contracting Parties shall provide adequate legal protection and effective legal remedies against the circumvention of effective technological measures that are used by authors in connection with the exercise of their rights under this Treaty or the Berne Convention and that restrict acts, in respect of their works, which are not authorized by the authors concerned or permitted by law. DIRECTIVE 2001/29/EC OF THE EUROPEAN PARLIAMENT AND OF THE COUNCIL of 22 May 2001 (see https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=CELEX%3A02001L0029-20190606 https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=CELEX%3A...) article 6, paragraph 3: what you quoted. RICHTLINIE 2001/29/EG DES EUROPÄISCHEN PARLAMENTS UND DES RATES vom 22. Mai 2001 (see https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/DE/TXT/?uri=CELEX%3A02001L0029-20190606 https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/DE/TXT/?uri=CELEX%3A...) Artikel 6, Paragraph 1: quote "gegen die Umgehung wirksamer technischer Maßnahmen", Paragraph 3: "Technische Maßnahmen sind als „wirksam“ anzusehen, soweit die Nutzung eines geschützten Werks oder eines sonstigen Schutzgegenstands von den Rechtsinhabern durch eine Zugangskontrolle oder einen Schutzmechanismus wie Verschlüsselung, Verzerrung oder sonstige Umwandlung des Werks oder sonstigen Schutzgegenstands oder einen Mechanismus zur Kontrolle der Vervielfältigung, die die Erreichung des Schutzziels sicherstellen, unter Kontrolle gehalten wird. DIRECTIVE 2001/29/CE DU PARLEMENT EUROPÉEN ET DU CONSEIL du 22 mai (see 2001https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/FR/TXT/?uri=CELEX%3A02001L0029-20190606 https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/FR/TXT/?uri=CELEX%3A...) Article 1: "le contournement de toute mesure technique efficace" and "Les mesures techniques sont réputées efficaces lorsque l'utilisation d'une œuvre protégée, ou celle d'un autre objet protégé, est contrôlée par les titulaires du droit grâce à l'application d'un code d'accès ou d'un procédé de protection, tel que le cryptage, le brouillage ou toute autre transformation de l'œuvre ou de l'objet protégé ou d'un mécanisme de contrôle de copie qui atteint cet objectif de protection." plus another 22 translations. German national law: "Wirksame technische Maßnahmen zum Schutz eines nach diesem Gesetz geschützten Werkes", see https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/urhg/__95a.html https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/urhg/__95a.html Swiss national law: "wirksame technische Massnahmen", https://www.admin.ch/opc/de/classified-compilation/19920251/index.html#fn-#a69a-1 https://www.admin.ch/opc/de/classified-compilation/19920251/... So the laws in general only apply to technical measures objectively (i.e. corresponding to the state of the art) able to protect legal rights in an effective manner. Measures which are not considered effective cannot claim legal protection. "technological measures in effect" (as you proposed) means "technische Maßnahmen in der Tat angewandt" in German or "les mesures technologiques en vigueur" in French which is not the same as "wirksame technische Massnahmen" or "de toute mesure technique efficace" or "effective technological measures"