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I agree that lockdowns are tough, but the economy is going to be trashed anyway if people are sick, disabled, dead or simply feel unsafe. And the lockdown was

I agree that lockdowns are tough, but the economy is going to be trashed anyway if people are sick, disabled, dead or simply feel unsafe. And the lockdown wasn't so bad, and the economy not so badly damaged if you did it properly the first time. - Life's pretty good in New Zealand right now.

Mediterraneo10 6y ago
European lockdowns cannot be called "improper" in comparison to New Zealand. NZ is an island served by container shipping that could fully close its borders. European states, on the other hand, are not self-sufficient in basic foodstuffs after centuries of trade and decades of the single market, and the borders had to remain open to at least freight trucks and movement of agricultural workers.
- NickNameNick 6y ago
  The UK is an island nation too. Closing the borders is not the problem, at least initially. Getting cross-contamination level between households down to effectively zero, and keeping it there long enough for 2 infection cycles is the hard part. NZ did it. Australia managed it eventually. A number of Asian countries have done well too. Possibly off the back of experience dealing with the prior SARS/MERS scares. Some of the African countries have done pretty well, possibly because of experience dealing with Ebola. New Zealand gets plenty of goods via air-freight, along with a continuous stream of returning ex-pats and foreign workers. and ships aren't so slow that the crews (and goods) are automatically safe to interact with when they get here. But it can be managed - we're managing it.
  - JNRowe 6y ago
    > The UK is an island nation too. True, but it also has an open land border. There are a bunch of subtleties to the definition of island nation¹, some of which make UK borders erm… interesting². ¹ https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Island_nation https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Island_nation ² https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Borders_of_the_United_Kingdom https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Borders_of_the_United_Kingdo...
  - mns 6y ago
    You can't just compare all countries as they were all the same. Europe managed it quite well while it was spring and summer (surprisingly in line with all the standard respiratory diseases stats from previous years). Australia (and their biggest outbreaks were controlled just as the seasons were changing). Then you can't compare Europe or US with Africa. Just look at the structure of the population and the age groups, most of the African nations have extremely younger population than Europe - exactly the ones that are at the most risk are the ones that are a majority in a lot of countries.

Mediterraneo10 6y ago

European lockdowns cannot be called "improper" in comparison to New Zealand. NZ is an island served by container shipping that could fully close its borders. European states, on the other hand, are not self-sufficient in basic foodstuffs after centuries of trade and decades of the single market, and the borders had to remain open to at least freight trucks and movement of agricultural workers.

NickNameNick 6y ago
The UK is an island nation too. Closing the borders is not the problem, at least initially. Getting cross-contamination level between households down to effectively zero, and keeping it there long enough for 2 infection cycles is the hard part. NZ did it. Australia managed it eventually. A number of Asian countries have done well too. Possibly off the back of experience dealing with the prior SARS/MERS scares. Some of the African countries have done pretty well, possibly because of experience dealing with Ebola. New Zealand gets plenty of goods via air-freight, along with a continuous stream of returning ex-pats and foreign workers. and ships aren't so slow that the crews (and goods) are automatically safe to interact with when they get here. But it can be managed - we're managing it.
- JNRowe 6y ago
  > The UK is an island nation too. True, but it also has an open land border. There are a bunch of subtleties to the definition of island nation¹, some of which make UK borders erm… interesting². ¹ https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Island_nation https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Island_nation ² https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Borders_of_the_United_Kingdom https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Borders_of_the_United_Kingdo...
- mns 6y ago
  You can't just compare all countries as they were all the same. Europe managed it quite well while it was spring and summer (surprisingly in line with all the standard respiratory diseases stats from previous years). Australia (and their biggest outbreaks were controlled just as the seasons were changing). Then you can't compare Europe or US with Africa. Just look at the structure of the population and the age groups, most of the African nations have extremely younger population than Europe - exactly the ones that are at the most risk are the ones that are a majority in a lot of countries.