5 ms·

> No accusations were leveled It doesn't matter. That's exactly what was being implied. Google wants to prevent any legal disputes or inquiries into their oper

by tkahn6 15y ago

> No accusations were leveled It doesn't matter. That's exactly what was being implied. Google wants to prevent any legal disputes or inquiries into their operations which can be very costly. The guy is a low-level low-importance asset so they had him terminated. It makes perfect sense.

gradstudent 15y ago
His importance to the Google machinery is irrelevant. According to the post, he was fired for using Google video equipment during working hours. Even though he'd been given explicit permission to do so. At worst he should have been given a warning. I hope, for the sake of consistency, "Carl" was also fired.
- tkahn6 15y ago
  > he was fired for using Google video equipment during working hours. Even though he'd been given explicit permission to do so. Yes they used that as a reason to fire him but that's not why they fired him.
  - gradstudent 15y ago
    Perhaps things are different in the U.S. but here -- in Australia -- you can only be fired for breach of contract. If that didn't occur, as the blog post seems to suggest, then he was unfairly dismissed.
    - pstack 15y ago
      As dangrossman points out, above, you can be fired for any reason whatsoever, on the spot. I believe the only protections are sex, race, gender, religion, and age. And as for sex, that means you can't be fired for being a male or a female. It has nothing to do with sexual orientation, for which you can still be fired in something like two or three dozen states. (Look into the ENDA which has been repeatedly proposed for the past 17 years, but never passed -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Employment_Non-Discrimination_Act http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Employment_Non-Discrimination_A... ). And for those things which are protected, there is often little you can do. Prove that they fired you for being too old and not just because you smelled bad or performed poorly at work or pissed the wrong person off. It therefore isn't really concerning that someone would not want to deal with the hassle of some jackass and would just ask for him to be fired, instead.
      - doe88 15y ago
        > the hassle of some jackass nice
      - scotty79 15y ago
        US seem like horrible country to work in. You are expected to donate unpaid overtime to your company, you can be fired on a whim. What else?
        davidw 15y ago
        It's easy to get hired because employers aren't afraid that they're wedded to you for life. And you generally make pretty good money - depending on your job of course. I think 'job protection' is a bit misguided. What makes more sense to me is 'people protection' - that even if you lose your job, you'll still be able to pay rent, eat, etc... It would make more sense to aim for that goal directly rather than force employers to keep people they don't want.
        mikecane 15y ago
        >>>What else? You are expected to STFU and be a "team player" despite what trouble the team is cooking up.
        flomo 15y ago
        Many states allow ridiculous non-compete agreements. (Fortunately not California, which is one reason so many startups are located here.)
        cturner 15y ago
        It's a different settlement. You can be fired more easily, but on the other hand it's easier to be an entrepreneur. Also, because it's easier to fire people, it's easier to hire people, because you know if they don't work out you have options. France is an example of a country where it doesn't work like that.
        scotty79 15y ago
        I'm not sure about being entrepreneur in US. Once I saw blog where someone listed costs of incorporating. Amount you should set aside for health insurance sent chills down my spine. Also more or less obligatory (if you are sane) usage of legal advice for any contract and such seems like a huge burden usually not present in other countries.
    - asmithmd1 15y ago
      In CA you can be fired for no reason or any reason except: Age, Ancestry, Color, Creed, Disability, Genetics, Marital status , Nat’l Origin, Race, Religion, Sex, or Sexual Orientation. Every state has a slightly different subset of these factors. Here is a good summary: http://www.cga.ct.gov/2003/olrdata/jud/rpt/2003-R-0641.htm http://www.cga.ct.gov/2003/olrdata/jud/rpt/2003-R-0641.htm
  - dangrossman 15y ago
    @gradstudent Most employment in the US is at-will; either party can terminate at any time without reason.
    - travisp 15y ago
      It may be technically at-will, but anyone can tell you that you have to be very careful when firing an employee.
    - hieronymusN 15y ago
      Employment may be at will, but the courts are full of lawsuits against employers for wrongful termination/dismissal. If you've ever dealt with a large HR dept you know that one of their main jobs is to prevent lawsuits brought/caused by employees.
      - flomo 15y ago
        "Wrongful termination" is largely a myth. I know a lot of educated professionals who believe they have the right to a "fair" termination, but except for very specific instances, it isn't the case, and these threats go nowhere. In most cases, unless there is a smoking gun, employers just sidestep the issue by targeting "layoffs", rather firing for cause. The bigger issue HR deals with is sexual harassment or discrimination cases. And, even nuisance lawsuits can be expensive to deal with, and HR/clerical staff is a lot cheaper than lawyers.
        jarin 15y ago
        I myself have witnessed the "layoff with a nice severance bonus". It actually seems to work out nicely for both parties.
        flomo 15y ago
        I had a boss whose philosophy was "Four weeks severance is cheaper than hiring a HR manager", and it did seem to work out pretty well. The company still had to deal with a 'nuisance' lawsuit, but was something totally out of the blue.
- deleted 15y ago
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- deleted 15y ago
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by tkahn6 15y ago

gradstudent 15y ago

His importance to the Google machinery is irrelevant. According to the post, he was fired for using Google video equipment during working hours. Even though he'd been given explicit permission to do so. At worst he should have been given a warning. I hope, for the sake of consistency, "Carl" was also fired.

tkahn6 15y ago
> he was fired for using Google video equipment during working hours. Even though he'd been given explicit permission to do so. Yes they used that as a reason to fire him but that's not why they fired him.
- gradstudent 15y ago
  Perhaps things are different in the U.S. but here -- in Australia -- you can only be fired for breach of contract. If that didn't occur, as the blog post seems to suggest, then he was unfairly dismissed.
  - pstack 15y ago
    As dangrossman points out, above, you can be fired for any reason whatsoever, on the spot. I believe the only protections are sex, race, gender, religion, and age. And as for sex, that means you can't be fired for being a male or a female. It has nothing to do with sexual orientation, for which you can still be fired in something like two or three dozen states. (Look into the ENDA which has been repeatedly proposed for the past 17 years, but never passed -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Employment_Non-Discrimination_Act http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Employment_Non-Discrimination_A... ). And for those things which are protected, there is often little you can do. Prove that they fired you for being too old and not just because you smelled bad or performed poorly at work or pissed the wrong person off. It therefore isn't really concerning that someone would not want to deal with the hassle of some jackass and would just ask for him to be fired, instead.
    - doe88 15y ago
      > the hassle of some jackass nice
    - scotty79 15y ago
      US seem like horrible country to work in. You are expected to donate unpaid overtime to your company, you can be fired on a whim. What else?
      - davidw 15y ago
        It's easy to get hired because employers aren't afraid that they're wedded to you for life. And you generally make pretty good money - depending on your job of course. I think 'job protection' is a bit misguided. What makes more sense to me is 'people protection' - that even if you lose your job, you'll still be able to pay rent, eat, etc... It would make more sense to aim for that goal directly rather than force employers to keep people they don't want.
      - mikecane 15y ago
        >>>What else? You are expected to STFU and be a "team player" despite what trouble the team is cooking up.
      - flomo 15y ago
        Many states allow ridiculous non-compete agreements. (Fortunately not California, which is one reason so many startups are located here.)
      - cturner 15y ago
        It's a different settlement. You can be fired more easily, but on the other hand it's easier to be an entrepreneur. Also, because it's easier to fire people, it's easier to hire people, because you know if they don't work out you have options. France is an example of a country where it doesn't work like that.
        scotty79 15y ago
        I'm not sure about being entrepreneur in US. Once I saw blog where someone listed costs of incorporating. Amount you should set aside for health insurance sent chills down my spine. Also more or less obligatory (if you are sane) usage of legal advice for any contract and such seems like a huge burden usually not present in other countries.
  - asmithmd1 15y ago
    In CA you can be fired for no reason or any reason except: Age, Ancestry, Color, Creed, Disability, Genetics, Marital status , Nat’l Origin, Race, Religion, Sex, or Sexual Orientation. Every state has a slightly different subset of these factors. Here is a good summary: http://www.cga.ct.gov/2003/olrdata/jud/rpt/2003-R-0641.htm http://www.cga.ct.gov/2003/olrdata/jud/rpt/2003-R-0641.htm
- dangrossman 15y ago
  @gradstudent Most employment in the US is at-will; either party can terminate at any time without reason.
  - travisp 15y ago
    It may be technically at-will, but anyone can tell you that you have to be very careful when firing an employee.
  - hieronymusN 15y ago
    Employment may be at will, but the courts are full of lawsuits against employers for wrongful termination/dismissal. If you've ever dealt with a large HR dept you know that one of their main jobs is to prevent lawsuits brought/caused by employees.
    - flomo 15y ago
      "Wrongful termination" is largely a myth. I know a lot of educated professionals who believe they have the right to a "fair" termination, but except for very specific instances, it isn't the case, and these threats go nowhere. In most cases, unless there is a smoking gun, employers just sidestep the issue by targeting "layoffs", rather firing for cause. The bigger issue HR deals with is sexual harassment or discrimination cases. And, even nuisance lawsuits can be expensive to deal with, and HR/clerical staff is a lot cheaper than lawyers.
      - jarin 15y ago
        I myself have witnessed the "layoff with a nice severance bonus". It actually seems to work out nicely for both parties.
        flomo 15y ago
        I had a boss whose philosophy was "Four weeks severance is cheaper than hiring a HR manager", and it did seem to work out pretty well. The company still had to deal with a 'nuisance' lawsuit, but was something totally out of the blue.
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