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I simultaneously believe blockchain vastly underperfoms its promises and is a net waste of so much investment (human talent + time + capital) and also believe t

by tyre 6y ago

I simultaneously believe blockchain vastly underperfoms its promises and is a net waste of so much investment (human talent + time + capital) and also believe that bitcoin can be exchanged for real US dollars.

seibelj 6y ago
You honestly don't see one valuable use-case for bitcoin? And if serious mainstream investors start buying it as an inflation hedge, they are just idiots?
- duxup 6y ago
  Is that a valuable use case? Just another instrument to try to use as a hedge? That really doesn't seem like what Bitcoin or the community is all about.
  - seibelj 6y ago
    You can't win arguing about crypto on HN. I list 50 use-cases, everyone says a centralized DB can do it better. I say the most crucial one - inflation hedge - and you say "What, that's it?" You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink.
    - duxup 6y ago
      I didn't look through 50 use cases, but as far as the potential as a hedge ... that seems really ephemeral and like so many things, is a thing that is already a thing.
  - raziel2701 6y ago
    Also bitcoin seems mighty volatile to be useful for hedging. I think bitcoin is a speculation tool and for buying illicit things.
- ineedasername 6y ago
  I think there are other mechanisms to accomplish most things that can (currently) be done with bitcoin. I think there's a good chance that will change at some point. Institutional investors are starting to take notice of crypto, but it doesn't appear to be a significant part of anyone's inflation hedge quite yet due to volatility and concerns of manipulation. Again, I think there's a good chance that will improve with time. But yes, for right now, I don't see an existing compelling use-case for crypto except in its future potential.
- istinetz 6y ago
  bitcoin as inflation hedge lmao
carlmr 6y ago
+ energy. Yes, traditional banking requires energy, too, but not nearly as much per transaction/person.
- dralley 6y ago
  "Not nearly as much" is quite an understatement. The factor is something like 350,000x more energy required for a bitcoin transaction vs. a transaction on the traditional banking network.
  - doggosphere 6y ago
    Citation?
    - carlmr 6y ago
      I didn't post it, but statista [1] says it's 741kWh for one bitcoin transaction vs. 149kWh for 100.000 visa transactions. That's a factor of 741/149 * 100,000 ≈ 497,000. Of course visa is not the whole banking system, but it seems as it would be roughly comparable. What I find horrific about this is that you can power your apartment for a year for the energy consumption of two bitcoin transactions. [1] https://www.statista.com/statistics/881541/bitcoin-energy-consumption-transaction-comparison-visa/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/881541/bitcoin-energy-co...
      - londons_explore 6y ago
        It's an example of "arbitrary effort wasted for a bigger slice of a fixed size pie". An equivalent would be advertising for the US election. If all parties cut their ad budgets by a factor of 10, the result would likely be the same. Yet they all "waste" their ad budgets on yard signs simply to get a bigger share of the vote, and they have to because their competitors do too.
        carlmr 6y ago
        I understand that, but this doesn't make it better. The max effort you put in is proportional too how much bitcoin is valued, so if more people use it and the value goes up, the energy requirements rise as well.

by tyre 6y ago

seibelj 6y ago

You honestly don't see one valuable use-case for bitcoin? And if serious mainstream investors start buying it as an inflation hedge, they are just idiots?

duxup 6y ago
Is that a valuable use case? Just another instrument to try to use as a hedge? That really doesn't seem like what Bitcoin or the community is all about.
- seibelj 6y ago
  You can't win arguing about crypto on HN. I list 50 use-cases, everyone says a centralized DB can do it better. I say the most crucial one - inflation hedge - and you say "What, that's it?" You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink.
  - duxup 6y ago
    I didn't look through 50 use cases, but as far as the potential as a hedge ... that seems really ephemeral and like so many things, is a thing that is already a thing.
- raziel2701 6y ago
  Also bitcoin seems mighty volatile to be useful for hedging. I think bitcoin is a speculation tool and for buying illicit things.
ineedasername 6y ago
I think there are other mechanisms to accomplish most things that can (currently) be done with bitcoin. I think there's a good chance that will change at some point. Institutional investors are starting to take notice of crypto, but it doesn't appear to be a significant part of anyone's inflation hedge quite yet due to volatility and concerns of manipulation. Again, I think there's a good chance that will improve with time. But yes, for right now, I don't see an existing compelling use-case for crypto except in its future potential.
istinetz 6y ago
bitcoin as inflation hedge lmao

carlmr 6y ago

+ energy. Yes, traditional banking requires energy, too, but not nearly as much per transaction/person.

dralley 6y ago
"Not nearly as much" is quite an understatement. The factor is something like 350,000x more energy required for a bitcoin transaction vs. a transaction on the traditional banking network.
- doggosphere 6y ago
  Citation?
  - carlmr 6y ago
    I didn't post it, but statista [1] says it's 741kWh for one bitcoin transaction vs. 149kWh for 100.000 visa transactions. That's a factor of 741/149 * 100,000 ≈ 497,000. Of course visa is not the whole banking system, but it seems as it would be roughly comparable. What I find horrific about this is that you can power your apartment for a year for the energy consumption of two bitcoin transactions. [1] https://www.statista.com/statistics/881541/bitcoin-energy-consumption-transaction-comparison-visa/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/881541/bitcoin-energy-co...
    - londons_explore 6y ago
      It's an example of "arbitrary effort wasted for a bigger slice of a fixed size pie". An equivalent would be advertising for the US election. If all parties cut their ad budgets by a factor of 10, the result would likely be the same. Yet they all "waste" their ad budgets on yard signs simply to get a bigger share of the vote, and they have to because their competitors do too.
      - carlmr 6y ago
        I understand that, but this doesn't make it better. The max effort you put in is proportional too how much bitcoin is valued, so if more people use it and the value goes up, the energy requirements rise as well.