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Musk's mission to accelerate the adoption of sustainable transport seems to be working flawlessly. I can't help to think that the existing manufacturers would

by LeonM 6y ago

Musk's mission to accelerate the adoption of sustainable transport seems to be working flawlessly. I can't help to think that the existing manufacturers would not have had any incentive of offering electric trucks anytime soon, until Tesla announced their plans for the Tesla semi. I am not in the transport business, but personally I am very happy to see electric trucks arrive in Europe. I live in a city and I can't stand the noise and stench of trucks with diesel engines. Not waking up from a noise of a diesel engine will seriously improve urban live.

Scene_Cast2 6y ago
I agree, I think that Tesla's biggest impact on the world has been the influence on car manufacturers, rather than the cars they have sold.
- toomuchtodo 6y ago
  True, but it's not just enough to prove the market and put in the effort to drive down the cost of batteries. Tesla gets paid credits from automakers who will not build EVs, but someone had to build and sell cars to be eligible for these credits, which is putting financial pain on legacy automakers [1]. This is important, otherwise these automakers would just cruise making combustion vehicles that further contribute to climate change. A former Tesla board member said about ZEV credits: "Tesla is eating the competitors' lunch and having them pay for it, that's a pretty cool trick" [2] [1] https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-11-02/honda-joins-fiat-in-tapping-tesla-for-europe-emission-compliance https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-11-02/honda-joi... [2] https://youtu.be/YzztWieFqVM?t=239 https://youtu.be/YzztWieFqVM?t=239
new_realist 6y ago
Not at all. Thus is entirely in response to government mandates and the Semi is still vaporware. These trucks are short haul, to boot.
- tenpies 6y ago
  Exactly. Tesla is a huge benefactor of government credits and programs - not the reason for those programs. Competitors are not jumping in because the market is ready to pay unsubsidized prices for EVs, they're jumping in because the market will pay subsidized prices. We're only just going to see what the EV landscape looks like in the next few years without the hefty hand of the government tilting the scales.
  - anonuser123456 6y ago
    Make ICE vehicles pay the price of their carbon emissions and then we'll talk about making price comparisons.
speedgoose 6y ago
I think it would have happened anyway. Electric vehicles are not new. Electric cars are as old as cars. The first car to reach 100km/h was electric for example. In the last 20 years batteries and electronics have improved a lot, so electric vehicles are interesting once again. And I don't think Tesla can explain the Mitsubishi i-Miev or the Nissan Leaf, the BMW i3, or the Renault Fluence just to give a few examples. Sure these cars were not designed to take over the world, but eventually electric vehicles were going to become more and more common in my humble opinion.
- LeonM 6y ago
  > I think it would have happened anyway. I didn't say it they would have never happened, I'm just observing that due to the competition (Tesla in this case, vaporware or not), the plans for EV trucks certainly seems to be accelerating.
- input_sh 6y ago
  To add to your comment, plenty of EU members have set a target to replace a part of their existing truck/car infrastructure with electric vehicles. For example, Germany wants to have a third of its trucks electric by 2030. EU truck manufacturers like Volvo, Renault, MAN, and Daimler are all a year away from responding to market's demands. US manufacturers are behind a few years for a chance to respond to that initial demand.
- dahfizz 6y ago
  >> Musk's mission to accelerate the adoption of sustainable transport seems to be working flawlessly. > I think it would have happened anyway. You could say that about literally anything. Space travel would have happened anyway. The internet would have happened anyway. The conditions of history are a prerequisite for any major breakthrough. The advancement in rocket technology made space travel possible, but that doesn't make Neil Armstrong's achievements meaningless. He was not passively riding along some wave of inevitability, he was a pioneer that actively pushed humanity further into the future.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
NormenNomen 6y ago
The amount of rent-free space Musk is awarded is absolutely staggering. Tesla isn't even his company.
legulere 6y ago
Why do you credit Tesla, when StreetScooters have been roaming the streets for years already? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/StreetScooter https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/StreetScooter

by LeonM 6y ago

Scene_Cast2 6y ago

I agree, I think that Tesla's biggest impact on the world has been the influence on car manufacturers, rather than the cars they have sold.

toomuchtodo 6y ago
True, but it's not just enough to prove the market and put in the effort to drive down the cost of batteries. Tesla gets paid credits from automakers who will not build EVs, but someone had to build and sell cars to be eligible for these credits, which is putting financial pain on legacy automakers [1]. This is important, otherwise these automakers would just cruise making combustion vehicles that further contribute to climate change. A former Tesla board member said about ZEV credits: "Tesla is eating the competitors' lunch and having them pay for it, that's a pretty cool trick" [2] [1] https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-11-02/honda-joins-fiat-in-tapping-tesla-for-europe-emission-compliance https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-11-02/honda-joi... [2] https://youtu.be/YzztWieFqVM?t=239 https://youtu.be/YzztWieFqVM?t=239

new_realist 6y ago

Not at all. Thus is entirely in response to government mandates and the Semi is still vaporware. These trucks are short haul, to boot.

tenpies 6y ago
Exactly. Tesla is a huge benefactor of government credits and programs - not the reason for those programs. Competitors are not jumping in because the market is ready to pay unsubsidized prices for EVs, they're jumping in because the market will pay subsidized prices. We're only just going to see what the EV landscape looks like in the next few years without the hefty hand of the government tilting the scales.
- anonuser123456 6y ago
  Make ICE vehicles pay the price of their carbon emissions and then we'll talk about making price comparisons.

speedgoose 6y ago

I think it would have happened anyway. Electric vehicles are not new. Electric cars are as old as cars. The first car to reach 100km/h was electric for example. In the last 20 years batteries and electronics have improved a lot, so electric vehicles are interesting once again. And I don't think Tesla can explain the Mitsubishi i-Miev or the Nissan Leaf, the BMW i3, or the Renault Fluence just to give a few examples. Sure these cars were not designed to take over the world, but eventually electric vehicles were going to become more and more common in my humble opinion.

LeonM 6y ago
> I think it would have happened anyway. I didn't say it they would have never happened, I'm just observing that due to the competition (Tesla in this case, vaporware or not), the plans for EV trucks certainly seems to be accelerating.
input_sh 6y ago
To add to your comment, plenty of EU members have set a target to replace a part of their existing truck/car infrastructure with electric vehicles. For example, Germany wants to have a third of its trucks electric by 2030. EU truck manufacturers like Volvo, Renault, MAN, and Daimler are all a year away from responding to market's demands. US manufacturers are behind a few years for a chance to respond to that initial demand.
dahfizz 6y ago
>> Musk's mission to accelerate the adoption of sustainable transport seems to be working flawlessly. > I think it would have happened anyway. You could say that about literally anything. Space travel would have happened anyway. The internet would have happened anyway. The conditions of history are a prerequisite for any major breakthrough. The advancement in rocket technology made space travel possible, but that doesn't make Neil Armstrong's achievements meaningless. He was not passively riding along some wave of inevitability, he was a pioneer that actively pushed humanity further into the future.

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

NormenNomen 6y ago

The amount of rent-free space Musk is awarded is absolutely staggering. Tesla isn't even his company.

legulere 6y ago

Why do you credit Tesla, when StreetScooters have been roaming the streets for years already? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/StreetScooter https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/StreetScooter