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Well, the thing about Vim and Emacs is that the users are expected to figure out configuration problems like these. That's not a point in favor of Vim and Emacs

Well, the thing about Vim and Emacs is that the users are expected to figure out configuration problems like these. That's not a point in favor of Vim and Emacs.

mbreese 6y ago
Right -- the argument here isn't against Vim per-se, but the entire ecosystem of plugins and configuration that's needed to work and be productive. Sure, there are a bunch of choices for you to use... but now you have another problem -- there are a bunch of choices.
- harperlee 6y ago
  Exactly. If you argue the pros of vim/emacs using the power that comes with access to extensibility functionalities, it seems intellectually hishonest to not consider the ecosystem and customization issues also for the cons.
mrozbarry 6y ago
Well, some mixed feelings on whether or not it's a point in favor or not. Just like any system, don't install plugins/copy+paste config that you don't understand or can't maintain. I've been able to open tsx files with linting/highlighting/testing plugins and everything works as expected. On the flip side, if you want easy configuration, then yes, vim/emacs/similar are not necessarily the right choices for you, but I don't think that means they are generally bad options.
- klodolph 6y ago
  > Just like any system, don't install plugins/copy+paste config that you don't understand or can't maintain. I don't think this advice makes sense at all. I can't maintain cc-mode and I don't understand how it works, yet I rely on it. Users should not be expected to understand how the TypeScript autocompletion works in order to get it working. I can open VS Code on a TypeScript project and get autocompletion working just based on the tsconfig.json, much of the time.
  - mrozbarry 6y ago
    Oh, I don't mean like you could maintain the library, just the configuration it may expect you to provide it.
  - gmadsen 6y ago
    agreed 100%. libraries live or die based on their interface.
- EdwardDiego 6y ago
  I guess it really depends on where you want to spend your time. Time spent customising and tweaking my tooling is time not spent focusing on my core work. Hence why, despite my interest in Fish, I'm still just making do with Bash, I just can't justify the time to make a proper switch.

Well, the thing about Vim and Emacs is that the users are expected to figure out configuration problems like these. That's not a point in favor of Vim and Emacs.

mbreese 6y ago

Right -- the argument here isn't against Vim per-se, but the entire ecosystem of plugins and configuration that's needed to work and be productive. Sure, there are a bunch of choices for you to use... but now you have another problem -- there are a bunch of choices.

harperlee 6y ago
Exactly. If you argue the pros of vim/emacs using the power that comes with access to extensibility functionalities, it seems intellectually hishonest to not consider the ecosystem and customization issues also for the cons.

mrozbarry 6y ago

Well, some mixed feelings on whether or not it's a point in favor or not. Just like any system, don't install plugins/copy+paste config that you don't understand or can't maintain. I've been able to open tsx files with linting/highlighting/testing plugins and everything works as expected. On the flip side, if you want easy configuration, then yes, vim/emacs/similar are not necessarily the right choices for you, but I don't think that means they are generally bad options.

klodolph 6y ago
> Just like any system, don't install plugins/copy+paste config that you don't understand or can't maintain. I don't think this advice makes sense at all. I can't maintain cc-mode and I don't understand how it works, yet I rely on it. Users should not be expected to understand how the TypeScript autocompletion works in order to get it working. I can open VS Code on a TypeScript project and get autocompletion working just based on the tsconfig.json, much of the time.
- mrozbarry 6y ago
  Oh, I don't mean like you could maintain the library, just the configuration it may expect you to provide it.
- gmadsen 6y ago
  agreed 100%. libraries live or die based on their interface.
EdwardDiego 6y ago
I guess it really depends on where you want to spend your time. Time spent customising and tweaking my tooling is time not spent focusing on my core work. Hence why, despite my interest in Fish, I'm still just making do with Bash, I just can't justify the time to make a proper switch.