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I don't understand. Athens man didn't understand he was going to die and be forgotten? Only modern man is aware that life is a "brief interlude"? (Not that I t

I don't understand. Athens man didn't understand he was going to die and be forgotten? Only modern man is aware that life is a "brief interlude"? (Not that I think everyone would agree with the infinite silence part.)

everdrive 6y ago
Senior (1), I can see your point. The stoics who lived well before Russell certainly did not put a lot of value in the emotions of the person. I'm paraphrasing quite badly here, but Marcus Aurelius said something to the effect of "everything that will happen has already happened, there is nothing special about me, and it's natural for me to die and be forgotten." I think Russell still paints a valid point, however you're right to think that perspectives were not uniform in the past, nor are they uniform now. I do believe, however, statistical awareness does add a bit more weight to Russell's perspective. (1) https://youtu.be/ZISMQ9O3EDQ?t=108 https://youtu.be/ZISMQ9O3EDQ?t=108
- anonymouse008 6y ago
  I also don't think Russell was speaking to stoics, but the local, or regional, experts. There's a common saying, "why be a big fish in a small pond?" It's used mostly to critique an idea that you should reach for something more - competing in a bigger city or bigger stage to better yourself. Now, the 'pond' is no longer tied to where you live - it follows you everyday on YouTube, Twitter, Blogs, everywhere. As I think is argued by Russell and everdrive, the pond has become the full connected world and 'opting out' is hard to do... making the regional experts that provide beauty to smaller communities inferior to the common man who sees greatness on the inter webs scrolling through ads. What's probably worse, I imagine this connection has removed a few potential regional experts drive to spend the hard time working and learning. I fear many of these people could have become one of the real 'greats' - had they retained the little glimmer of 'unfounded confidence' that is washed away with the constant stimulus of other greats. Finally, I'm not saying all is lost... some thrive in this and view stimuli of the greats as inspirational... but it's definitely not the same skillset that previous generations used to thrive.
  - angst_ridden 6y ago
    I agree. It's an observation on the great flattening. When I was a kid, the neighbor who knew something about Ham radio was a brilliant expert, the neighbor who made bread was an exceptional baker, and the guy down the street who could paint portraits was a talented artist. Now, compared to all the talents in the world, they were all just competent at best, or even mediocre. In those days, the comparison wasn't visible. Now it's in everyone's face 24x7. It doesn't mean you can't enjoy the activities. But if you're vested in being the best or even notable, you're now competing on a global scale rather than just your town.
    - anonymouse008 6y ago
      And therein lies the crux of the issue: > It doesn’t mean you can’t enjoy the activities. But if you’re vested in being the best or even notable, you’re now competing on a global scale rather than just your town. So true, and all this becomes sinister when you begin to realize that ‘enjoyment’ comes in many flavors - and lot of enjoyment comes from sharing with others. So when other people say (not you I don’t think), “well you can do X just for the love of doing X,” they miss out on is the response, ‘well yeah, but I want to share it with you, too!’
- coffeecat 6y ago
  The kind of cynicism that Russell discusses is also very explicit in the book of Ecclesiastes. The thing that hath been, it is that which shall be; and that which is done is that which shall be done: and there is no new thing under the sun. Is there any thing whereof it may be said, See, this is new? it hath been already of old time, which was before us. There is no remembrance of former things; neither shall there be any remembrance of things that are to come with those that shall come after. I the Preacher was king over Israel in Jerusalem. And I gave my heart to seek and search out by wisdom concerning all things that are done under heaven: this sore travail hath God given to the sons of man to be exercised therewith. I have seen all the works that are done under the sun; and, behold, all is vanity and vexation of spirit.

everdrive 6y ago

Senior (1), I can see your point. The stoics who lived well before Russell certainly did not put a lot of value in the emotions of the person. I'm paraphrasing quite badly here, but Marcus Aurelius said something to the effect of "everything that will happen has already happened, there is nothing special about me, and it's natural for me to die and be forgotten." I think Russell still paints a valid point, however you're right to think that perspectives were not uniform in the past, nor are they uniform now. I do believe, however, statistical awareness does add a bit more weight to Russell's perspective. (1) https://youtu.be/ZISMQ9O3EDQ?t=108 https://youtu.be/ZISMQ9O3EDQ?t=108

anonymouse008 6y ago
I also don't think Russell was speaking to stoics, but the local, or regional, experts. There's a common saying, "why be a big fish in a small pond?" It's used mostly to critique an idea that you should reach for something more - competing in a bigger city or bigger stage to better yourself. Now, the 'pond' is no longer tied to where you live - it follows you everyday on YouTube, Twitter, Blogs, everywhere. As I think is argued by Russell and everdrive, the pond has become the full connected world and 'opting out' is hard to do... making the regional experts that provide beauty to smaller communities inferior to the common man who sees greatness on the inter webs scrolling through ads. What's probably worse, I imagine this connection has removed a few potential regional experts drive to spend the hard time working and learning. I fear many of these people could have become one of the real 'greats' - had they retained the little glimmer of 'unfounded confidence' that is washed away with the constant stimulus of other greats. Finally, I'm not saying all is lost... some thrive in this and view stimuli of the greats as inspirational... but it's definitely not the same skillset that previous generations used to thrive.
- angst_ridden 6y ago
  I agree. It's an observation on the great flattening. When I was a kid, the neighbor who knew something about Ham radio was a brilliant expert, the neighbor who made bread was an exceptional baker, and the guy down the street who could paint portraits was a talented artist. Now, compared to all the talents in the world, they were all just competent at best, or even mediocre. In those days, the comparison wasn't visible. Now it's in everyone's face 24x7. It doesn't mean you can't enjoy the activities. But if you're vested in being the best or even notable, you're now competing on a global scale rather than just your town.
  - anonymouse008 6y ago
    And therein lies the crux of the issue: > It doesn’t mean you can’t enjoy the activities. But if you’re vested in being the best or even notable, you’re now competing on a global scale rather than just your town. So true, and all this becomes sinister when you begin to realize that ‘enjoyment’ comes in many flavors - and lot of enjoyment comes from sharing with others. So when other people say (not you I don’t think), “well you can do X just for the love of doing X,” they miss out on is the response, ‘well yeah, but I want to share it with you, too!’
coffeecat 6y ago
The kind of cynicism that Russell discusses is also very explicit in the book of Ecclesiastes. The thing that hath been, it is that which shall be; and that which is done is that which shall be done: and there is no new thing under the sun. Is there any thing whereof it may be said, See, this is new? it hath been already of old time, which was before us. There is no remembrance of former things; neither shall there be any remembrance of things that are to come with those that shall come after. I the Preacher was king over Israel in Jerusalem. And I gave my heart to seek and search out by wisdom concerning all things that are done under heaven: this sore travail hath God given to the sons of man to be exercised therewith. I have seen all the works that are done under the sun; and, behold, all is vanity and vexation of spirit.