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I used to be like you. But then I realized that I was getting paid well below market because I was trying to play fair. In fact, when I took my current job I w

I used to be like you. But then I realized that I was getting paid well below market because I was trying to play fair. In fact, when I took my current job I was unhappy with the money but happy with the job description. So I said, listen I'm taking the job, but I'd like you to increase the offer. They said they can't and give me a bunch of BS reasons why. Then they went ahead and also hired someone else I knew, who had similar (IMHO worse) qualifications than me, for the money I'd asked for but not got. Funny how the tune changed when I realized what was afoot and hinted at quitting if it weren't fixed soon. I got a 30% raise and a 15% bonus. No questions asked.

T-R 15y ago
You can do it without hardball tactics, though - if you keep your eye out for other opportunities (i.e. have a better BATNA), then you can present it honestly as "the best move for me right now", and if they don't want to give a raise, you can discuss alternative benefits that would satisfy both parties. On the other hand, if they're trying to screw you, they're trying to screw you.
- shawndrost 15y ago
  Is that better for any of the parties involved? It's work for you to find a BATNA, work for the org that offered you your BATNA, and neutral for your employer. Seems more straightforward to just negotiate.
  - T-R 15y ago
    I'd say it's better - it's not more or less straightforward, both distributive and integrative approaches are still negotiations. You need to know your BATNA anyway, whether it's leaving or sucking it up, so doing more research just puts you in a better position, no matter which route you choose. Bluffing might get you lucky, but not likely as lucky as if you can back it up, and if they call your bluff, or it doesn't work out for some other reason, you'll have less bargaining power in the future. It's also good to keep in mind that the best deal someone else got doesn't necessarily relate to the best deal you can get - just because someone negotiated a higher salary doesn't mean you can; it's not your BATNA unless someone makes you the offer. Also, if nothing else, distributive approaches tend to leave one or both parties feeling like they lost, which will likely sour future negotiations. Taking the integrative route means that the only losers are the companies that don't get you - assuming that's in their best interest (which it might not be, if they have a better BATNA than matching your BATNA). Also, if the amount of effort and time that the negotiation takes is amongst your interests, then that's really on the negotiation table too (regardless of approach), it just means that you'll be negotiating away other things, like your salary, in order to satisfy that interest.
    - microarchitect 15y ago
      I agree with all of what you're saying. I was just trying to point out to the OP that s/he doesn't need to feel dirty doing all this. I also don't think you need to be dishonest about any of this. In my case, instead of letting the cat out of the bag by telling them I wanted to take the job, I should've said the offer was well below my expectation (true) and said nothing about whether I wanted to take the job (no lying involved). One advantage of doing what I did (i.e. not bring in another offer) is that I can now get even more when I quit from here. My suggestion is that if you're getting screwed over and the company want to keep you - get the best deal your company can give and then use THIS as a baseline for your next offer.
cookiecaper 15y ago
Go in and ask for what you want. If you don't get what you want, move on and don't accept their crappy excuses. If you do get what you want, take it. Do research first to ensure that "what you want" is in line with "what you deserve". Negotiation generally boils down to a game of chicken. Are you really going to leave the offer on the table if they don't bump the wage? Are they really going to pass on you and find someone that's cheaper if they've already decided they like you and want to hire you? Negotiation would be a really straightforward thing if people were willing to be honest about things. For our purposes, "hardball" negotiation is just annoying, and the tactics listed here are dishonest, some blatantly (like pretending you have to get approval from someone when you really don't). It always lessens my opinion of the person when I can tell they're employing "negotiation tactics". The places where you may legitimately need these skills tend to be more on the side of interrogation than establishing compensation.

T-R 15y ago

You can do it without hardball tactics, though - if you keep your eye out for other opportunities (i.e. have a better BATNA), then you can present it honestly as "the best move for me right now", and if they don't want to give a raise, you can discuss alternative benefits that would satisfy both parties. On the other hand, if they're trying to screw you, they're trying to screw you.

shawndrost 15y ago
Is that better for any of the parties involved? It's work for you to find a BATNA, work for the org that offered you your BATNA, and neutral for your employer. Seems more straightforward to just negotiate.
- T-R 15y ago
  I'd say it's better - it's not more or less straightforward, both distributive and integrative approaches are still negotiations. You need to know your BATNA anyway, whether it's leaving or sucking it up, so doing more research just puts you in a better position, no matter which route you choose. Bluffing might get you lucky, but not likely as lucky as if you can back it up, and if they call your bluff, or it doesn't work out for some other reason, you'll have less bargaining power in the future. It's also good to keep in mind that the best deal someone else got doesn't necessarily relate to the best deal you can get - just because someone negotiated a higher salary doesn't mean you can; it's not your BATNA unless someone makes you the offer. Also, if nothing else, distributive approaches tend to leave one or both parties feeling like they lost, which will likely sour future negotiations. Taking the integrative route means that the only losers are the companies that don't get you - assuming that's in their best interest (which it might not be, if they have a better BATNA than matching your BATNA). Also, if the amount of effort and time that the negotiation takes is amongst your interests, then that's really on the negotiation table too (regardless of approach), it just means that you'll be negotiating away other things, like your salary, in order to satisfy that interest.
  - microarchitect 15y ago
    I agree with all of what you're saying. I was just trying to point out to the OP that s/he doesn't need to feel dirty doing all this. I also don't think you need to be dishonest about any of this. In my case, instead of letting the cat out of the bag by telling them I wanted to take the job, I should've said the offer was well below my expectation (true) and said nothing about whether I wanted to take the job (no lying involved). One advantage of doing what I did (i.e. not bring in another offer) is that I can now get even more when I quit from here. My suggestion is that if you're getting screwed over and the company want to keep you - get the best deal your company can give and then use THIS as a baseline for your next offer.

cookiecaper 15y ago

Go in and ask for what you want. If you don't get what you want, move on and don't accept their crappy excuses. If you do get what you want, take it. Do research first to ensure that "what you want" is in line with "what you deserve". Negotiation generally boils down to a game of chicken. Are you really going to leave the offer on the table if they don't bump the wage? Are they really going to pass on you and find someone that's cheaper if they've already decided they like you and want to hire you? Negotiation would be a really straightforward thing if people were willing to be honest about things. For our purposes, "hardball" negotiation is just annoying, and the tactics listed here are dishonest, some blatantly (like pretending you have to get approval from someone when you really don't). It always lessens my opinion of the person when I can tell they're employing "negotiation tactics". The places where you may legitimately need these skills tend to be more on the side of interrogation than establishing compensation.