6 ms·

Wittgenstein wrote a dictionary for elementary school students

59 points by Hooke 6y ago

ggm 6y ago
An interesting man, but with so many internal conflicts. His contribution to architecture and interior design is also notable: He was obsessed with details, making the perfect door handle. Cross referencing another post elsewhere, Keynes took Wittgenstein on his honeymoon (Keynes btw, was a sex fiend and kept explicit erotic diaries) .. a decision which I think calls his sanity into question!
mellosouls 6y ago
[The dictionary] was published by a Viennese press in the fall of 1926. This was a few months after a harrowing corporal punishment incident in which Wittgenstein struck a student, causing the student to collapse. He abruptly abandoned his teaching career and moved back to Vienna. More on this pivotal episode which seems to have sent Wittgenstein into (or been the culmination of a process leading to) a breakdown: https://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haidbauer_incident https://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haidbauer_incident
- RcouF1uZ4gsC 6y ago
  From the Wikipedia article you linked: > He spent hours with favoured pupils, offering them extra tuition outside the classroom, sometimes until eight in the evening, which did not endear him to their parents.[10] He would take them on overnight trips to Vienna to see museums and cathedrals >One boy, Karl Gruber, from an impoverished family with six children, became a favourite. The two studied Latin, Greek and mathematics together from four to seven in the evening, then dined in Wittgenstein's room. This seems like classic grooming behavior.
  - unixhero 6y ago
    >This seems like classic grooming behavior. I really want you to be wrong about this.
  - morelisp 6y ago
    It is also classic "teacher trying to support a gifted student from a disadvantaged background" behavior. (Though overall he was an awful teacher who fundamentally didn't seem to realize you should not expect unversity-level commitment to the work from primary school students.) Wittgenstein had a lot of of sexual hangups but I have never seen any evidence he was a pedophile.
    - watwut 6y ago
      It is not? I an not saying he was grooming him necessary, but overnight trips are not normal behavior of teacher trying to help poor gifted student.
      - pvg 6y ago
        It isn't today but if you read German-speaking lit from the period, you'll notice teachers held a very different position in society. This is, of course, true of other places as well.
        watwut 6y ago
        Sure, but overnight trips were still not normal. Notice parents taking issue with pupils being there for tree hours and dinner.
      - morelisp 6y ago
        > overnight trips are not normal behavior of teacher trying to help poor gifted student. The forms have changed but only slightly. ~All G&T programs in the US run summer camps and weekend trips. Schools outside of major cities take overnight field trips to the nearest major city to access museums and galleries, often with additional costs for families. Extracurricular programs (not only sports but also forensics, mathematics olympiads, OM and FIRST, etc.) require family resources for students to participate outside their immediate city. For older students, teachers often organize overseas trips with enormous associated expenses. The importance of this might be lost on people who grew up in countries more functional than the US. The lack of decent inter-city rail/bus networks means children from impoverished families may otherwise never get outside their city (maybe even neighborhood) until they can drive themselves. (I am less familiar with the norms of early 20th century Austrian schooling but I wouldn't be surprised if it looks more like modern US schools than it does modern Austrian schools...)
  - gerland 6y ago
    He was gay, so I would not be surprised by a pederastia incident.
    - dang 6y ago
      We've banned this account for repeatedly breaking the site guidelines. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- neonate 6y ago
  That Wikipedia page is utterly fascinating from start to finish.
  - hetspookjee 6y ago
    The entire history of the Wittgenstein family is a long tragic winding story. Definitely can recommend the wiki of Wittgenstein: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ludwig_Wittgenstein https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ludwig_Wittgenstein
new_guy 6y ago
Those poor kids!
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
osullivj 6y ago
Fascinating. I knew Wittgenstein taught primary in the 20s, but never connected that with all the later Philosophical Investigations about language as a game, forms of life, intersubjectivity. Looks like that connection has been the object of recent scholarly attention: https://www.academia.edu/7913113/The_Philosophical_Investigations_Children https://www.academia.edu/7913113/The_Philosophical_Investiga...
makach 6y ago
I heard that Wittgenstein was a beery swine Who was just as schloshed as Schlegel

59 points by Hooke 6y ago

ggm 6y ago

An interesting man, but with so many internal conflicts. His contribution to architecture and interior design is also notable: He was obsessed with details, making the perfect door handle. Cross referencing another post elsewhere, Keynes took Wittgenstein on his honeymoon (Keynes btw, was a sex fiend and kept explicit erotic diaries) .. a decision which I think calls his sanity into question!

mellosouls 6y ago

[The dictionary] was published by a Viennese press in the fall of 1926. This was a few months after a harrowing corporal punishment incident in which Wittgenstein struck a student, causing the student to collapse. He abruptly abandoned his teaching career and moved back to Vienna. More on this pivotal episode which seems to have sent Wittgenstein into (or been the culmination of a process leading to) a breakdown: https://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haidbauer_incident https://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haidbauer_incident

RcouF1uZ4gsC 6y ago
From the Wikipedia article you linked: > He spent hours with favoured pupils, offering them extra tuition outside the classroom, sometimes until eight in the evening, which did not endear him to their parents.[10] He would take them on overnight trips to Vienna to see museums and cathedrals >One boy, Karl Gruber, from an impoverished family with six children, became a favourite. The two studied Latin, Greek and mathematics together from four to seven in the evening, then dined in Wittgenstein's room. This seems like classic grooming behavior.
- unixhero 6y ago
  >This seems like classic grooming behavior. I really want you to be wrong about this.
- morelisp 6y ago
  It is also classic "teacher trying to support a gifted student from a disadvantaged background" behavior. (Though overall he was an awful teacher who fundamentally didn't seem to realize you should not expect unversity-level commitment to the work from primary school students.) Wittgenstein had a lot of of sexual hangups but I have never seen any evidence he was a pedophile.
  - watwut 6y ago
    It is not? I an not saying he was grooming him necessary, but overnight trips are not normal behavior of teacher trying to help poor gifted student.
    - pvg 6y ago
      It isn't today but if you read German-speaking lit from the period, you'll notice teachers held a very different position in society. This is, of course, true of other places as well.
      - watwut 6y ago
        Sure, but overnight trips were still not normal. Notice parents taking issue with pupils being there for tree hours and dinner.
    - morelisp 6y ago
      > overnight trips are not normal behavior of teacher trying to help poor gifted student. The forms have changed but only slightly. ~All G&T programs in the US run summer camps and weekend trips. Schools outside of major cities take overnight field trips to the nearest major city to access museums and galleries, often with additional costs for families. Extracurricular programs (not only sports but also forensics, mathematics olympiads, OM and FIRST, etc.) require family resources for students to participate outside their immediate city. For older students, teachers often organize overseas trips with enormous associated expenses. The importance of this might be lost on people who grew up in countries more functional than the US. The lack of decent inter-city rail/bus networks means children from impoverished families may otherwise never get outside their city (maybe even neighborhood) until they can drive themselves. (I am less familiar with the norms of early 20th century Austrian schooling but I wouldn't be surprised if it looks more like modern US schools than it does modern Austrian schools...)
- gerland 6y ago
  He was gay, so I would not be surprised by a pederastia incident.
  - dang 6y ago
    We've banned this account for repeatedly breaking the site guidelines. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
neonate 6y ago
That Wikipedia page is utterly fascinating from start to finish.
- hetspookjee 6y ago
  The entire history of the Wittgenstein family is a long tragic winding story. Definitely can recommend the wiki of Wittgenstein: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ludwig_Wittgenstein https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ludwig_Wittgenstein

new_guy 6y ago

Those poor kids!

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

osullivj 6y ago

Fascinating. I knew Wittgenstein taught primary in the 20s, but never connected that with all the later Philosophical Investigations about language as a game, forms of life, intersubjectivity. Looks like that connection has been the object of recent scholarly attention: https://www.academia.edu/7913113/The_Philosophical_Investigations_Children https://www.academia.edu/7913113/The_Philosophical_Investiga...

makach 6y ago

I heard that Wittgenstein was a beery swine Who was just as schloshed as Schlegel