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I agree and really wish it weren't so, because I have to give advice to my son like "If someone is tormenting you and won't stop, eventually you're going to hav

I agree and really wish it weren't so, because I have to give advice to my son like "If someone is tormenting you and won't stop, eventually you're going to have to fight them. Make sure the opening is advantageous to you, even if it means you throw the first punch." That's the kind of thing that's not true for almost any situation exception school, where the other option is potentially years of physical and emotional abuse. The sad part is a lot of the people who were bullied (who I witnessed) were quite large children, who probably would have easily handed the the bully his own arse, but because of fear he didn't physically defend himself.

0xbadcafebee 6y ago
When I was in... I dunno, 5th grade? I got disciplined because some kid was punching me on the playground, so I kicked him. I told the school administrators, they didn't care. The phrase they used was "we don't use karate on people here!" I had no idea what karate was. I got bullied at the next couple schools I went to, and the only way anyone would stop was the few times I (or somebody else on my behalf) fought back. But of course then I would get in trouble for fighting. I was later told many times I had a "problem with authority". Who wouldn't? How do you learn fairness, justice, or to respect authority if it treats you like crap?
- Fnoord 6y ago
  (Disclaimer: I got bullied and bullied...) I'm very sorry to hear this. Unfortunately, what you described is common with regards to bullying. Even if you get bullied with words, snap out, and are the first to enter physically violent you might reasonably have gotten provoked (trolled) into that situation. A school who then says "you started the violence" while ignoring (not taking into account) everything which happened before that, is turning a blind eye to the problem and ultimately not putting in the effort they should be responsible and accountable for. They should get to the root of the problem: the bullying. And that happens for a good reason; usually insecurity within the bullies, a leader who has servants, etc. On the other hand, it is a valuable lesson to punish the person who started physical violence. This is because (at least here) the law works in such a way that whoever starts with physical behavior (including 'pushing') is the one who started, and allows the other person to defend themselves. I experienced this roughly 5 years ago myself (though also in other situations). One time I was walking through downtown Amsterdam to work (evening shift) and I bought some food for on the go. I was eating it, when suddenly 3 guys stand around me and ask if they can have some of my food. Well, actually, no. It was my dinner before my shift at work, and there was no easy/cheap way to get decent food at work, besides it cost me enough, and I had to be there on time. These guys circled around me, wouldn't let me go, and eventually got me near a store/wall/corner (I had a MBP in my backpack which was my primary concern). If at any point I had pushed them to get out of there, I would have started, so there's not much you can do at such point but argue. They kept 'begging'. Within a minute they insulted me one final time (called me a pig) and then walked away. I didn't understand WTF just happened but I asked my partner later, and she told me these guys weren't interested in my food; they were just looking for a fight. Had I pushed them away, I'd have started.

0xbadcafebee 6y ago

When I was in... I dunno, 5th grade? I got disciplined because some kid was punching me on the playground, so I kicked him. I told the school administrators, they didn't care. The phrase they used was "we don't use karate on people here!" I had no idea what karate was. I got bullied at the next couple schools I went to, and the only way anyone would stop was the few times I (or somebody else on my behalf) fought back. But of course then I would get in trouble for fighting. I was later told many times I had a "problem with authority". Who wouldn't? How do you learn fairness, justice, or to respect authority if it treats you like crap?

Fnoord 6y ago
(Disclaimer: I got bullied and bullied...) I'm very sorry to hear this. Unfortunately, what you described is common with regards to bullying. Even if you get bullied with words, snap out, and are the first to enter physically violent you might reasonably have gotten provoked (trolled) into that situation. A school who then says "you started the violence" while ignoring (not taking into account) everything which happened before that, is turning a blind eye to the problem and ultimately not putting in the effort they should be responsible and accountable for. They should get to the root of the problem: the bullying. And that happens for a good reason; usually insecurity within the bullies, a leader who has servants, etc. On the other hand, it is a valuable lesson to punish the person who started physical violence. This is because (at least here) the law works in such a way that whoever starts with physical behavior (including 'pushing') is the one who started, and allows the other person to defend themselves. I experienced this roughly 5 years ago myself (though also in other situations). One time I was walking through downtown Amsterdam to work (evening shift) and I bought some food for on the go. I was eating it, when suddenly 3 guys stand around me and ask if they can have some of my food. Well, actually, no. It was my dinner before my shift at work, and there was no easy/cheap way to get decent food at work, besides it cost me enough, and I had to be there on time. These guys circled around me, wouldn't let me go, and eventually got me near a store/wall/corner (I had a MBP in my backpack which was my primary concern). If at any point I had pushed them to get out of there, I would have started, so there's not much you can do at such point but argue. They kept 'begging'. Within a minute they insulted me one final time (called me a pig) and then walked away. I didn't understand WTF just happened but I asked my partner later, and she told me these guys weren't interested in my food; they were just looking for a fight. Had I pushed them away, I'd have started.