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I'm curious if we have insights into whether psychedelics' mental health effects work by changing something by a direct chemical interaction, or if they work by

I'm curious if we have insights into whether psychedelics' mental health effects work by changing something by a direct chemical interaction, or if they work by just encouraging the patient to rewire their own brain while tripping. If e.g. you administered psychedelics on someone in an induced coma, would you see the same benefit?

jychang 6y ago
IIRC there were studies done to that effect with subjects in comas with various psychedelics, where there were no effects. Regard this with a large grain of salt though, I read that somewhere a long time ago and don't have a source rn.
- Gene_Parmesan 6y ago
  Sounds like an informed consent nightmare. How could this even happen? This wasn't even close to my area of legal practice though so it's I guess possible for there to be some sort of workaround. Looks like a potentially interesting study here: https://jme.bmj.com/content/45/5/299 https://jme.bmj.com/content/45/5/299
  - bccdee 6y ago
    I imagine next-of-kin have power of attorney when it comes to medical treatments done on comatose patients. That would probably include medical trials.
smcleod 6y ago
For me, it made me lose my "ego" to a certain extent during the experiences, I was able to feel some (what I now know are very important) emotions I was struggling to feel or accept for many, many years after trying many different types of therapy and medicines. Once I was able to feel and confront those emotions and discover what had me so wound up, upset and sad - I was finally able to start the process of healing.
PragmaticPulp 6y ago
This study wasn't just about psilocybin. The patients received 11 hours of professional therapy. The psilocybin was used as an adjunct. The theory is that psilocybin increases suggestibility and openness to new ideas, making the therapy easier to integrate. Note that increasing suggestibility isn't a universally positive trait, especially for people doing ad-hoc dosing alone without therapy. In fact, it's uncommon to hear "bad trip" stories where people end up in prolonged depressive or anxious episodes following a trip. There is no evidence here that taking psychedelics without therapy is positive for patients, so it's extremely unlikely that dosing someone who is sedated or in a coma would have any effect.
- aksss 6y ago
  We always considered sleep to be the 'reset' button after taking acid or mushrooms.

jychang 6y ago

IIRC there were studies done to that effect with subjects in comas with various psychedelics, where there were no effects. Regard this with a large grain of salt though, I read that somewhere a long time ago and don't have a source rn.

Gene_Parmesan 6y ago
Sounds like an informed consent nightmare. How could this even happen? This wasn't even close to my area of legal practice though so it's I guess possible for there to be some sort of workaround. Looks like a potentially interesting study here: https://jme.bmj.com/content/45/5/299 https://jme.bmj.com/content/45/5/299
- bccdee 6y ago
  I imagine next-of-kin have power of attorney when it comes to medical treatments done on comatose patients. That would probably include medical trials.

smcleod 6y ago

For me, it made me lose my "ego" to a certain extent during the experiences, I was able to feel some (what I now know are very important) emotions I was struggling to feel or accept for many, many years after trying many different types of therapy and medicines. Once I was able to feel and confront those emotions and discover what had me so wound up, upset and sad - I was finally able to start the process of healing.

PragmaticPulp 6y ago

This study wasn't just about psilocybin. The patients received 11 hours of professional therapy. The psilocybin was used as an adjunct. The theory is that psilocybin increases suggestibility and openness to new ideas, making the therapy easier to integrate. Note that increasing suggestibility isn't a universally positive trait, especially for people doing ad-hoc dosing alone without therapy. In fact, it's uncommon to hear "bad trip" stories where people end up in prolonged depressive or anxious episodes following a trip. There is no evidence here that taking psychedelics without therapy is positive for patients, so it's extremely unlikely that dosing someone who is sedated or in a coma would have any effect.

aksss 6y ago
We always considered sleep to be the 'reset' button after taking acid or mushrooms.