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> I began starting a fight the moment others would belittle me. This sucks but.. from personal experience, there's absolutely no question in my mind that this

> I began starting a fight the moment others would belittle me. This sucks but.. from personal experience, there's absolutely no question in my mind that this is by far the most effective way to deal with assholes in middle school. I'd love to be wrong, but if there's a better way, I certainly didn't find it when I daily had to deal with that kind of shit.

aspaceman 6y ago
Silence is the other successful approach. You make yourself an unappealing punching bag by not responding or taking it in a way the bully finds pleasurable. I personally found the fighting back approach unsuccessful for myself and I know others did too. It doesn’t work if watching you try and fight back is funny for the bullies. Seeing you flail about is a blast for them.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- justinclift 6y ago
  > Seeing you flail about is a blast for them. Maybe (?) the problem there was not having developed the skills to fight back effectively, before doing so. For myself, I was able to start training in martial arts (starting with a reasonable Taekwondo place) after I'd been bullied for a while. Personally, I was still a complete wimp for at least the first few years after I started training. But at some point (maybe 3-4 years into training?) I did the "snap" thing and had the skills + physique for it to be effective. Plus I wasn't stupid enough to "snap" in a public place where I'd be caught. Maybe the other important thing is learning to pick your opportune moment(s) for pay back. ;)
  - User23 6y ago
    Middle school isn't the octagon. Granted knowing how to throw a punch or kick with decent technique helps, but what's really important is having the attitude of being willing to inflict harm on another human being. And it sounds like that was what limited GP's courses of action. Also of course GP could have been skipped grades or otherwise been much punier than the other students, in which case the amount of training one could get by that age would likely be irrelevant anyhow. In that case the correct strategy is to make friends. Middle school really is a remarkable distillation of human tribal behaviors.
- Agentlien 6y ago
  I tried ignoring all the bullies and not encouraging them. That's what all the adults said to do. I tried already before I was six. Kept trying until I was sixteen. It never worked. It only got worse. I ignored them, they pushed me down a flight of stairs and then beat me when I was trying to catch myself. I didn't respond to them trying to pick a fight, they swept my legs so my head hit the stone floor and then sat on top of me hitting me. Luckily, at sixteen I started upper secondary school and got away from the problem children. It was a technology programme and people were there because they'd actually chosen it. But it took years before I could be at least a bit less withdrawn and socially awkward.
- Fnoord 6y ago
  Ignoring/silence sounds good on paper, but it generally doesn't work with persistent bullies. They notice your reaction e.g. facial expression. Even if you just twitch or blink. It fuels them. If you physically fight back, you need to do it effectively. Perhaps follow some martial arts lessons. My partner got bullied by one person (very hard), and practiced kickboxing. Yet when they got in a fight, she got blamed. All the, literally years, of bullying be damned. That's a blow in face from adults who are supposed to protect you, and it hurts.
ed25519FUUU 6y ago
I agree and really wish it weren't so, because I have to give advice to my son like "If someone is tormenting you and won't stop, eventually you're going to have to fight them. Make sure the opening is advantageous to you, even if it means you throw the first punch." That's the kind of thing that's not true for almost any situation exception school, where the other option is potentially years of physical and emotional abuse. The sad part is a lot of the people who were bullied (who I witnessed) were quite large children, who probably would have easily handed the the bully his own arse, but because of fear he didn't physically defend himself.
- 0xbadcafebee 6y ago
  When I was in... I dunno, 5th grade? I got disciplined because some kid was punching me on the playground, so I kicked him. I told the school administrators, they didn't care. The phrase they used was "we don't use karate on people here!" I had no idea what karate was. I got bullied at the next couple schools I went to, and the only way anyone would stop was the few times I (or somebody else on my behalf) fought back. But of course then I would get in trouble for fighting. I was later told many times I had a "problem with authority". Who wouldn't? How do you learn fairness, justice, or to respect authority if it treats you like crap?
  - Fnoord 6y ago
    (Disclaimer: I got bullied and bullied...) I'm very sorry to hear this. Unfortunately, what you described is common with regards to bullying. Even if you get bullied with words, snap out, and are the first to enter physically violent you might reasonably have gotten provoked (trolled) into that situation. A school who then says "you started the violence" while ignoring (not taking into account) everything which happened before that, is turning a blind eye to the problem and ultimately not putting in the effort they should be responsible and accountable for. They should get to the root of the problem: the bullying. And that happens for a good reason; usually insecurity within the bullies, a leader who has servants, etc. On the other hand, it is a valuable lesson to punish the person who started physical violence. This is because (at least here) the law works in such a way that whoever starts with physical behavior (including 'pushing') is the one who started, and allows the other person to defend themselves. I experienced this roughly 5 years ago myself (though also in other situations). One time I was walking through downtown Amsterdam to work (evening shift) and I bought some food for on the go. I was eating it, when suddenly 3 guys stand around me and ask if they can have some of my food. Well, actually, no. It was my dinner before my shift at work, and there was no easy/cheap way to get decent food at work, besides it cost me enough, and I had to be there on time. These guys circled around me, wouldn't let me go, and eventually got me near a store/wall/corner (I had a MBP in my backpack which was my primary concern). If at any point I had pushed them to get out of there, I would have started, so there's not much you can do at such point but argue. They kept 'begging'. Within a minute they insulted me one final time (called me a pig) and then walked away. I didn't understand WTF just happened but I asked my partner later, and she told me these guys weren't interested in my food; they were just looking for a fight. Had I pushed them away, I'd have started.
op00to 6y ago
I defended myself and faught bullies and abusers in middle and high school. They were too stupid to understand anything, especially diminishing returns. Two of those guys are now mortgage brokers. Lol.

aspaceman 6y ago

Silence is the other successful approach. You make yourself an unappealing punching bag by not responding or taking it in a way the bully finds pleasurable. I personally found the fighting back approach unsuccessful for myself and I know others did too. It doesn’t work if watching you try and fight back is funny for the bullies. Seeing you flail about is a blast for them.

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
justinclift 6y ago
> Seeing you flail about is a blast for them. Maybe (?) the problem there was not having developed the skills to fight back effectively, before doing so. For myself, I was able to start training in martial arts (starting with a reasonable Taekwondo place) after I'd been bullied for a while. Personally, I was still a complete wimp for at least the first few years after I started training. But at some point (maybe 3-4 years into training?) I did the "snap" thing and had the skills + physique for it to be effective. Plus I wasn't stupid enough to "snap" in a public place where I'd be caught. Maybe the other important thing is learning to pick your opportune moment(s) for pay back. ;)
- User23 6y ago
  Middle school isn't the octagon. Granted knowing how to throw a punch or kick with decent technique helps, but what's really important is having the attitude of being willing to inflict harm on another human being. And it sounds like that was what limited GP's courses of action. Also of course GP could have been skipped grades or otherwise been much punier than the other students, in which case the amount of training one could get by that age would likely be irrelevant anyhow. In that case the correct strategy is to make friends. Middle school really is a remarkable distillation of human tribal behaviors.
Agentlien 6y ago
I tried ignoring all the bullies and not encouraging them. That's what all the adults said to do. I tried already before I was six. Kept trying until I was sixteen. It never worked. It only got worse. I ignored them, they pushed me down a flight of stairs and then beat me when I was trying to catch myself. I didn't respond to them trying to pick a fight, they swept my legs so my head hit the stone floor and then sat on top of me hitting me. Luckily, at sixteen I started upper secondary school and got away from the problem children. It was a technology programme and people were there because they'd actually chosen it. But it took years before I could be at least a bit less withdrawn and socially awkward.
Fnoord 6y ago
Ignoring/silence sounds good on paper, but it generally doesn't work with persistent bullies. They notice your reaction e.g. facial expression. Even if you just twitch or blink. It fuels them. If you physically fight back, you need to do it effectively. Perhaps follow some martial arts lessons. My partner got bullied by one person (very hard), and practiced kickboxing. Yet when they got in a fight, she got blamed. All the, literally years, of bullying be damned. That's a blow in face from adults who are supposed to protect you, and it hurts.

ed25519FUUU 6y ago

I agree and really wish it weren't so, because I have to give advice to my son like "If someone is tormenting you and won't stop, eventually you're going to have to fight them. Make sure the opening is advantageous to you, even if it means you throw the first punch." That's the kind of thing that's not true for almost any situation exception school, where the other option is potentially years of physical and emotional abuse. The sad part is a lot of the people who were bullied (who I witnessed) were quite large children, who probably would have easily handed the the bully his own arse, but because of fear he didn't physically defend himself.

0xbadcafebee 6y ago
When I was in... I dunno, 5th grade? I got disciplined because some kid was punching me on the playground, so I kicked him. I told the school administrators, they didn't care. The phrase they used was "we don't use karate on people here!" I had no idea what karate was. I got bullied at the next couple schools I went to, and the only way anyone would stop was the few times I (or somebody else on my behalf) fought back. But of course then I would get in trouble for fighting. I was later told many times I had a "problem with authority". Who wouldn't? How do you learn fairness, justice, or to respect authority if it treats you like crap?
- Fnoord 6y ago
  (Disclaimer: I got bullied and bullied...) I'm very sorry to hear this. Unfortunately, what you described is common with regards to bullying. Even if you get bullied with words, snap out, and are the first to enter physically violent you might reasonably have gotten provoked (trolled) into that situation. A school who then says "you started the violence" while ignoring (not taking into account) everything which happened before that, is turning a blind eye to the problem and ultimately not putting in the effort they should be responsible and accountable for. They should get to the root of the problem: the bullying. And that happens for a good reason; usually insecurity within the bullies, a leader who has servants, etc. On the other hand, it is a valuable lesson to punish the person who started physical violence. This is because (at least here) the law works in such a way that whoever starts with physical behavior (including 'pushing') is the one who started, and allows the other person to defend themselves. I experienced this roughly 5 years ago myself (though also in other situations). One time I was walking through downtown Amsterdam to work (evening shift) and I bought some food for on the go. I was eating it, when suddenly 3 guys stand around me and ask if they can have some of my food. Well, actually, no. It was my dinner before my shift at work, and there was no easy/cheap way to get decent food at work, besides it cost me enough, and I had to be there on time. These guys circled around me, wouldn't let me go, and eventually got me near a store/wall/corner (I had a MBP in my backpack which was my primary concern). If at any point I had pushed them to get out of there, I would have started, so there's not much you can do at such point but argue. They kept 'begging'. Within a minute they insulted me one final time (called me a pig) and then walked away. I didn't understand WTF just happened but I asked my partner later, and she told me these guys weren't interested in my food; they were just looking for a fight. Had I pushed them away, I'd have started.

op00to 6y ago

I defended myself and faught bullies and abusers in middle and high school. They were too stupid to understand anything, especially diminishing returns. Two of those guys are now mortgage brokers. Lol.