6 ms·

Let's not infantalize him. Twenty six years old is not a "kid." He was a grown ass man who attempted to have someone killed. That being said, a double life sent

Let's not infantalize him. Twenty six years old is not a "kid." He was a grown ass man who attempted to have someone killed. That being said, a double life sentence is extreme, considering many actual murderers get out after less than twenty years. Our draconian drug punishment escalations are not good.

kylebenzle 6y ago
Please stop repeating lies about a man who can't defend himself. Those charges were dropped and there is no reason to believe that the state was not lying when they laid them on him.
- part1of2 6y ago
  > Those charges were dropped Dropping charges doesn't mean it's not true, just that the prosecutor did not want to pursue the case, in light of other prosecution available.
  - bawolff 6y ago
    Regardless, we don't punish people on the basis of dropped charges. If he wasn't convicted, then we shouldn't talk about the punishment he deserves to get for those charges.
    - FireBeyond 6y ago
      Courts do not. We however can express opinions as we see fit.
      - bawolff 6y ago
        Indeed, "can" and "should" are very different
        part1of2 6y ago
        We know Kings of England have committed murders. We know dictators have committed atrocities. We know Germany attempted to get Mexico to attack the US. Should we not talk about those things just because they haven’t been tried in court? No, that would be crazy. We should talk about those things because they did happen and there is evidence. And there is evidence in this scenario too, is there not?
        bawolff 6y ago
        > And there is evidence in this scenario too, is there not? Not all evidence is created equal and the situation here where there was a functioning fair court system is quite different from situations where there isn't one. There was definitely some irregularities in the investigation, and a possibility of entrapment. Regardless, i don't take issue with talking about it, i just take issue with saying he deserves to be punished for it when the allegations were never proven in court. He should be punished for the things its proven he did, not the things he might have done.
    - deleted 6y ago
      [deleted]
  - hndamien 6y ago
    I thought we were presumed innocent until proven guilty? Or should I just allege some charges against you?
    - deleted 6y ago
      [deleted]
    - shard972 6y ago
      Hey that's your opinion, apparently that's just fine.
    - bigwavedave 6y ago
      In truth, that really depends on where you fit into the legal/court system. Spurious allegations can be libelous, so make sure you have the right kind of clout, position, and justification before alleging anything serious, especially if you fall into the "private citizen" camp when making the aforementioned claims.
  - colinmhayes 6y ago
    I didn't realize people were sentenced based off dropped charges?
    - reshie 6y ago
      socially guilty or innocent. there are some that all it takes is accusations but legally absolutely.
    - KMag 6y ago
      Yes. This should scare us all. Hiring a hitman was both suggested and pushed by someone acting on behalf of the government, and an entrapment defence had better than a 50/50 chance of working, or they wouldn't have dropped charges. Ross is no moral hero, but let's not pretend he was treated fairly or reasonably by law enforcement or the court.
- etc-hosts 6y ago
  Ulbricht kept very detailed records of everything he did, sorted by year/month/day, stored on his Windows laptop. He definitely thought he had ordered the death of at least one, possibly more, errant employees. I am aware that the errant employee and the hitman he hired were all FBI cutouts.
sillysaurusx 6y ago
I think you should presume innocent until proven guilty, if you’re a fan of our court system. And he was not convicted of attempting to have anyone killed.
- asdfasgasdgasdg 6y ago
  I do not acknowledge the authority of the legal system of the United States of America over my own beliefs and statements. However, if I did, I'd just call to your attention the fact he was sentenced partly based on this the transgression I named, even if he was not charged with it. That would be enough for me to drop the "alleged" verbiage, were I inclined to put it there in the first place.
  - zucker42 6y ago
    The fact that he was sentenced based on a crime he was not convicted for is a travesty and in my opinion unconstitutional (violates the rights to a public jury trial and to due process).
  - KMag 6y ago
    I believe the GP was attempting to draw attention to the fact that the majority of Ross's sentence was based on mere allegation of a crime. (Granted, with good evidence, but without due process.) The probable reason charges were dropped on the conspiracy to commit murder charge was it probably would have fallen to an entrapment defence. Hiring a hitman was suggested and pushed by someone acting on behalf of the government at the time. Ross is no hero, but also, let's not pretend the court system acted reasonably here. If they had even a 50/50 chance of getting him on conspiracy to commit murder, they would have brought the charge to trial. The prosecutor didn't drop the charge to be nice. The evidence of entrapment probably would have hurt the case as a whole, so they dropped the conspiracy to commit murder charge. Yet, it appears this strong suggestion that he committed a serious crime played the majority role in his sentencing. This should scare anyone around the world, given the long reach of US law enforcement. The prosecutor kept embarrassing entrapment details out of the trial and still got a heavy sentence for just the allegation of a crime. The prosecutor got to have their cake and eat it too.
blunte 6y ago
That's the first and hopefully last time I've seen "grown ass man" on HN. This isn't Reddit (although a tiny bit of Reddit humor and wordplay is nice from time to time). But good news! The US draconian drug punishment laws are changing as we speak... for users, that is. Sellers are probably still at significant risk.
- usui 6y ago
  I do cringe at the sight of reading "grown ass man" considering that it does not really add much to what "grown man" could have accomplished. Thanks, I am glad to know I am not the only one who feels this.
zucker42 6y ago
He was never convicted of trying to kill someone.
eternalban 6y ago
YMMV, but good grief, at 26, you haven’t [yet] lived. Kid was not intended to patronize him, so try “young man” if you prefer.

kylebenzle 6y ago

Please stop repeating lies about a man who can't defend himself. Those charges were dropped and there is no reason to believe that the state was not lying when they laid them on him.

part1of2 6y ago
> Those charges were dropped Dropping charges doesn't mean it's not true, just that the prosecutor did not want to pursue the case, in light of other prosecution available.
- bawolff 6y ago
  Regardless, we don't punish people on the basis of dropped charges. If he wasn't convicted, then we shouldn't talk about the punishment he deserves to get for those charges.
  - FireBeyond 6y ago
    Courts do not. We however can express opinions as we see fit.
    - bawolff 6y ago
      Indeed, "can" and "should" are very different
      - part1of2 6y ago
        We know Kings of England have committed murders. We know dictators have committed atrocities. We know Germany attempted to get Mexico to attack the US. Should we not talk about those things just because they haven’t been tried in court? No, that would be crazy. We should talk about those things because they did happen and there is evidence. And there is evidence in this scenario too, is there not?
        bawolff 6y ago
        > And there is evidence in this scenario too, is there not? Not all evidence is created equal and the situation here where there was a functioning fair court system is quite different from situations where there isn't one. There was definitely some irregularities in the investigation, and a possibility of entrapment. Regardless, i don't take issue with talking about it, i just take issue with saying he deserves to be punished for it when the allegations were never proven in court. He should be punished for the things its proven he did, not the things he might have done.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
- hndamien 6y ago
  I thought we were presumed innocent until proven guilty? Or should I just allege some charges against you?
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
  - shard972 6y ago
    Hey that's your opinion, apparently that's just fine.
  - bigwavedave 6y ago
    In truth, that really depends on where you fit into the legal/court system. Spurious allegations can be libelous, so make sure you have the right kind of clout, position, and justification before alleging anything serious, especially if you fall into the "private citizen" camp when making the aforementioned claims.
- colinmhayes 6y ago
  I didn't realize people were sentenced based off dropped charges?
  - reshie 6y ago
    socially guilty or innocent. there are some that all it takes is accusations but legally absolutely.
  - KMag 6y ago
    Yes. This should scare us all. Hiring a hitman was both suggested and pushed by someone acting on behalf of the government, and an entrapment defence had better than a 50/50 chance of working, or they wouldn't have dropped charges. Ross is no moral hero, but let's not pretend he was treated fairly or reasonably by law enforcement or the court.
etc-hosts 6y ago
Ulbricht kept very detailed records of everything he did, sorted by year/month/day, stored on his Windows laptop. He definitely thought he had ordered the death of at least one, possibly more, errant employees. I am aware that the errant employee and the hitman he hired were all FBI cutouts.

sillysaurusx 6y ago

I think you should presume innocent until proven guilty, if you’re a fan of our court system. And he was not convicted of attempting to have anyone killed.

asdfasgasdgasdg 6y ago
I do not acknowledge the authority of the legal system of the United States of America over my own beliefs and statements. However, if I did, I'd just call to your attention the fact he was sentenced partly based on this the transgression I named, even if he was not charged with it. That would be enough for me to drop the "alleged" verbiage, were I inclined to put it there in the first place.
- zucker42 6y ago
  The fact that he was sentenced based on a crime he was not convicted for is a travesty and in my opinion unconstitutional (violates the rights to a public jury trial and to due process).
- KMag 6y ago
  I believe the GP was attempting to draw attention to the fact that the majority of Ross's sentence was based on mere allegation of a crime. (Granted, with good evidence, but without due process.) The probable reason charges were dropped on the conspiracy to commit murder charge was it probably would have fallen to an entrapment defence. Hiring a hitman was suggested and pushed by someone acting on behalf of the government at the time. Ross is no hero, but also, let's not pretend the court system acted reasonably here. If they had even a 50/50 chance of getting him on conspiracy to commit murder, they would have brought the charge to trial. The prosecutor didn't drop the charge to be nice. The evidence of entrapment probably would have hurt the case as a whole, so they dropped the conspiracy to commit murder charge. Yet, it appears this strong suggestion that he committed a serious crime played the majority role in his sentencing. This should scare anyone around the world, given the long reach of US law enforcement. The prosecutor kept embarrassing entrapment details out of the trial and still got a heavy sentence for just the allegation of a crime. The prosecutor got to have their cake and eat it too.

blunte 6y ago

That's the first and hopefully last time I've seen "grown ass man" on HN. This isn't Reddit (although a tiny bit of Reddit humor and wordplay is nice from time to time). But good news! The US draconian drug punishment laws are changing as we speak... for users, that is. Sellers are probably still at significant risk.

usui 6y ago
I do cringe at the sight of reading "grown ass man" considering that it does not really add much to what "grown man" could have accomplished. Thanks, I am glad to know I am not the only one who feels this.

zucker42 6y ago

He was never convicted of trying to kill someone.

eternalban 6y ago

YMMV, but good grief, at 26, you haven’t [yet] lived. Kid was not intended to patronize him, so try “young man” if you prefer.