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> I find writing like this to be incredibly patronizing. As if people aren't already having polite discussions about politics. That's like saying it's patroniz
by kbenson 6y ago
> I find writing like this to be incredibly patronizing. As if people aren't already having polite discussions about politics.
That's like saying it's patronizing to read someone saying "please don't speed" because there's plenty of people not speeding. There's also plenty of people that are doing it, and it's those people that it's aimed at.
> And that is where America is politically today. There are fundamental facts and values we disagree about.
There is benefit in exploring what those are. Just because differences are reconcilable doesn't mean there isn't progress that can be made. There's world of difference in a conversation that is about how "you don't care about children/women" and "we disagree on some fundamentals so can't come to a perfect solution, but perhaps some compromise on specifics is possible, even if neither of us is happy".
> As if people are voting and do not know what they are for and against. The funny part too is that we are at a point where that is least true. Voter's knowledge of their party's policies is at an all time high.
But that's only half of it, it's not always what your group is for or against, but what the other group is for or against. I would hazard a guess that voter's accurate knowledge of the competing party's policies are is at an all time low. Sometimes it's not about what your party will do, as much as what you think they'll keep others from doing, if you honestly believe those others are going to "take all our guns" or the equivalent.
There are fundamental differences, but I don't think they are at the policy level, they are far down and inform policies. I've found little at the political level that I fundamentally disagree with anyone. Usually it's a matter of one or both of us not having good data, and instead going on what we think the data is and how policies should affect it. Nobody wants poor people to be in the streets starving and freezing and sometimes causing crime, but most people don't want to devote so much to that issue that others don't get attention or they can't live their own lives. We're not disagreeing on some help to those people, we're disagreeing on how much help and how much money, and the answer to that is highly dependent on what you think works, why you think people are in that situation, whether they can ever get out of it, etc. Those are beliefs, but I think most people would be willing to reassess what they believe based on data, so they aren't fundamental.
- DubiousPusher 6y agoDo you have any examples of contemporary issues where an infusion of information has triggered a successful policy reassement and compromise? If not an active success then some areas where it's possible? I'd love to believe this but years of following local, state and federal politics have disabused me of this notion. Especially watching the Obama administration try that approach over and over unsuccessfully. I guess Maine comes to mind but it's small size and idiosyncratic politics don't bode well for expanding that model across the country.
- kbenson 6y ago> Do you have any examples of contemporary issues where an infusion of information has triggered a successful policy reassement and compromise? If not an active success then some areas where it's possible? At a group level? No. At an individual level? Yes. The problems are presented by the nature of the groups competing for mindshare, and I don't know a good solution for that. That doesn't mean that we can't have substantive and productive conversations as individuals though, which is what I'm talking about here. It's important to accept that the other party may have data you haven't considered yourself though. This isn't a call to "show them why they're wrong" as much as a note that actual discussion requires an exchange of ideas and data and an acceptance that there may be things you don't know that can change your own mind as much as the mind of others. > I'd love to believe this but years of following local, state and federal politics have disabused me of this notion. Especially watching the Obama administration try that approach over and over unsuccessfully. I agree. It's a hard problem when scaled up. When scaled down though, I think it's still tractable.