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IBM has been divesting themselves of good programmers for a while now, probably at least a decade. Their interns are steered away from programming, towards car

IBM has been divesting themselves of good programmers for a while now, probably at least a decade. Their interns are steered away from programming, towards career paths that are perceived as adding value: e.g. consulting. I suppose in theory this makes sense: have the smart locals figure out what is needed, write up some specs and then get the guys in Bangalore to bang (sic) it out for you. In practice, it is an absolute dogs bollocks. (1) The local IBMers have forgotten how to do anything in the real world. No, seriously. They can't even install a server to use for their own use as a test machine in less than 4-6 weeks. (2) The Bangalore IBMers cannot code for shit. They are the second worst programmers I ever worked with (and the worst was a consultant Thoughtworker who was actively sabotaging the project). The ones who did the least got promoted. twitch (3) They can't even maintain the software they wrote 5-10 years ago, they just don't make any effort to retain that knowledge. (4) It might be different for US IBMers, but outside of the US the programmers got the shaft big time when the GFC hit. Stupid little things like (even if your business unit was profitable) you had to bring your own coffee and milk in to work because they stopped supplying them free. Other than the above, IBM is just like any other large organization.

derleth 15y ago
> They can't even maintain the software they wrote 5-10 years ago, they just don't make any effort to retain that knowledge. IBM is the company that keeps a nearly-five-decade-old architecture and ISA around for its business customers, correct? (zSeries (or whatever its name is this week) is derived from s390, is derived from s370, is derived from s360, was created in the early 1960s.) z/OS and z/VM are modern versions of MVS and CP-40, which date to 1974 and 1967, respectively. It seems odd that the company that does that would have problems with decade-old software in any of its business units.
- kamaal 15y ago
  Big companies divide their company internally into many units. Things like research, services or even on basis of Industry verticals like Banking, Communication and Entertainment. The units in IBM that work on Mainframes and Supercomputers et al, are totally different than the ones that execute maintenance and service projects. The people, the culture everything is different.
- rbanffy 15y ago
  It seems Stormbringer was looking at the IT consulting division. I have to agree with him/her on that - I hear horrible things about them and I'd never, ever, under no circumstances, hire them. That said, I have enormous respect for their mainframe division and operating system programmers. Their server hardware (z, i, and x), z/OS/, z/VM, AIX and their contributions to the Linux kernel are all very good. IBM is certainly big enough and old enough that different divisions can behave like completely different companies. It's a bit unfair, in fact, to see one division tarnishing the image of a company so full with groundbreaking accomplishments and such a rich history as IBM. The consulting division has to compete for huge contracts, that are managed by pointy-haired lifeforms who can't see beyond hourly rates, with equally incompetent organizations like EDS/HP, Accenture and Tata. You put an evolutionary pression on the market driving it to provide low prices. The marker responds optimizing for price and price alone. When you have to compete in price with incompetent-but-cheap organizations, you either become incompetent-but-cheap or get out of business. Tough choice.
kamaal 15y ago
The thing about Bangalore IBM'ers I'm from Bangalore myself and can say that you are 100% correct. The whole thing is IBM Bangalore is actually composed of IBM services, and most of them service projects. I have many friends working there, and its just another Indian company. Its your usual job hoppers who know nothing but keep moving from one company to another just for hikes. To more about the state of affairs here, read my comment on another thread - http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2480368 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2480368

derleth 15y ago

> They can't even maintain the software they wrote 5-10 years ago, they just don't make any effort to retain that knowledge. IBM is the company that keeps a nearly-five-decade-old architecture and ISA around for its business customers, correct? (zSeries (or whatever its name is this week) is derived from s390, is derived from s370, is derived from s360, was created in the early 1960s.) z/OS and z/VM are modern versions of MVS and CP-40, which date to 1974 and 1967, respectively. It seems odd that the company that does that would have problems with decade-old software in any of its business units.

kamaal 15y ago
Big companies divide their company internally into many units. Things like research, services or even on basis of Industry verticals like Banking, Communication and Entertainment. The units in IBM that work on Mainframes and Supercomputers et al, are totally different than the ones that execute maintenance and service projects. The people, the culture everything is different.
rbanffy 15y ago
It seems Stormbringer was looking at the IT consulting division. I have to agree with him/her on that - I hear horrible things about them and I'd never, ever, under no circumstances, hire them. That said, I have enormous respect for their mainframe division and operating system programmers. Their server hardware (z, i, and x), z/OS/, z/VM, AIX and their contributions to the Linux kernel are all very good. IBM is certainly big enough and old enough that different divisions can behave like completely different companies. It's a bit unfair, in fact, to see one division tarnishing the image of a company so full with groundbreaking accomplishments and such a rich history as IBM. The consulting division has to compete for huge contracts, that are managed by pointy-haired lifeforms who can't see beyond hourly rates, with equally incompetent organizations like EDS/HP, Accenture and Tata. You put an evolutionary pression on the market driving it to provide low prices. The marker responds optimizing for price and price alone. When you have to compete in price with incompetent-but-cheap organizations, you either become incompetent-but-cheap or get out of business. Tough choice.

kamaal 15y ago

The thing about Bangalore IBM'ers I'm from Bangalore myself and can say that you are 100% correct. The whole thing is IBM Bangalore is actually composed of IBM services, and most of them service projects. I have many friends working there, and its just another Indian company. Its your usual job hoppers who know nothing but keep moving from one company to another just for hikes. To more about the state of affairs here, read my comment on another thread - http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2480368 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2480368