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(Original author here) Fight vs. flight. How do you decide? I'm just a bit older than you (36 currently) and haven't figured it out yet. Like, if I think the

(Original author here) Fight vs. flight. How do you decide? I'm just a bit older than you (36 currently) and haven't figured it out yet. Like, if I think the politics somewhere are a dumpster fire, or to use your analogy, growing crops in a salted field, how do I pick the battles I'll fight, vs. the ones where it's best to let go? Offhand, I tend to think it's worth fighting for when the thing is very important to you personally, it's something only you can do (whether by dint of identity, skills, whatever), or the benefits are large. Probably not worth it when you don't have the patience (might take ten years but you only want to put in 5), the other side is too entrenched, or the upside isn't worth it. Would love to hear your thoughts on this.

OldHand2018 6y ago
In your blog post, you mention that you are doing all this in Homewood, IL which, while declining a bit from the time when you grew up, is still a pretty nice place. With a commuter train connection to one of the largest business districts in the US, there are still tons of ambitious and motivated people around you. Your local high school is shared with the much wealthier city next to you, etc. I don't think the person writing the comment was imagining this kind of city. Good luck reversing the decline of the South Suburbs. It will take a lot of work. The largest problem, in my opinion, are the oppressive property taxes (municipal consolidation is probably the only solution). Do you really think that someone can live comfortably down there for $20-30k per year? Or are you talking in terms of founders that have plenty of capital and only need $20-30k in living costs? I really don't think it's that cheap...
- eldavido 6y ago
  Much bigger conversation I'm happy to have off-thread (email me). I agree with everything you've said. I own an apartment building and the rent on a 1BR close to downtown is $875/month. Mind you, this is 2 blocks from a commuter rail station in a reasonable building that includes water and parking, in a city with a great park district, good schools, and plenty to do. I didn't say you're living high on the hog--you're getting by. The household median income in Homewood is 57k. It's no Palo Alto, just a relatively modest town with reasonable local government and people who seem to care a lot. I like this. Illinois is clearly on a fiscal crash course. I have no doubt about that and now that the fair tax was defeated at the ballot box, it's going to accelerate the insolvency. The state needs to get its pension obligations in line with its funding levels. Obviously that's going to take a decade. But I'm pretty convinced that this state's strengths (Chicago, great universities, lots of competent local governments) could make it bounce back. Especially seeing the direction a lot of other states like California are going, or San Francisco, a city that can't seem to balance its $13 billion annual budget after it increase 50% in the last 5-10 years. Any idiot can run Palo Alto, where the median household income is $140k. It takes a lot more to make a city with about 60% less income function.
xapata 6y ago
> when the thing is very important to you Your preferences will change over time. When I was younger, I had an intense desire to provide some grand public good. Now I regret those wasted years, and all I want to do is take pleasant walks around my neighborhood with my dog, and maybe play soccer in the park. Most of us, almost tautologically, are similar to each other. Ask some older people what their preferences are and you'll have a reasonable idea of what you'll be like at their age. Sure, there will be generational differences, but the shift in yourself will be comparable to the shift that other people went through. I shouldn't say I regret those "wasted" years. I regret them only to the extent I regret not having won the lottery, which is to say almost not at all. However, I want to caution against committing to a decision that might limit your options in the future. In particular, the choice of where to live has a dramatic effect on your career, your friends, and your family.
scottLobster 6y ago
Yeah it's hard to develop a general criteria. There are also situations where you may be making a lot of invisible progress, and what appears to be a hopeless situation for years hits a breakthrough and suddenly huge progress is made overnight because people were actually listening to some degree. So trying to map everything out ahead of time can be a fool's errand when you have no objective measures of progress. If the goal is to avoid sunk cost fallacies, I'd say the answer is same as anywhere, budgeting. Develop some general, convenient (very important they're convenient, otherwise you won't track them) metrics, so that way you have at least a general idea of how much time, money, sleep, even vague things like energy level, stress and opportunity costs can be tracked to some degree. That way you have some quantifiable measure of how many resources you're sinking into a project and if it's worth it (ie I was abnormally stressed out directly due to this effort for 137 days last year, is it worth another 137 days of abnormal stress? Or from an opportunity cost perspective I could have spent those 50 hours playing with my kids, would that have been a better investment?) Also set some hard budget ceilings and very stiff criteria (like at least an 80% chance of meaningful progress, whatever that means specifically for the situation) for going over them. That way you don't feel trapped by the ceiling, but it still holds you accountable. Of course it's all on the individual to maintain the metrics and stick to the budget, but I'd argue if you don't have the discipline to do even that you might want to question your ability to execute any plans for more complex community development :)

OldHand2018 6y ago

In your blog post, you mention that you are doing all this in Homewood, IL which, while declining a bit from the time when you grew up, is still a pretty nice place. With a commuter train connection to one of the largest business districts in the US, there are still tons of ambitious and motivated people around you. Your local high school is shared with the much wealthier city next to you, etc. I don't think the person writing the comment was imagining this kind of city. Good luck reversing the decline of the South Suburbs. It will take a lot of work. The largest problem, in my opinion, are the oppressive property taxes (municipal consolidation is probably the only solution). Do you really think that someone can live comfortably down there for $20-30k per year? Or are you talking in terms of founders that have plenty of capital and only need $20-30k in living costs? I really don't think it's that cheap...

eldavido 6y ago
Much bigger conversation I'm happy to have off-thread (email me). I agree with everything you've said. I own an apartment building and the rent on a 1BR close to downtown is $875/month. Mind you, this is 2 blocks from a commuter rail station in a reasonable building that includes water and parking, in a city with a great park district, good schools, and plenty to do. I didn't say you're living high on the hog--you're getting by. The household median income in Homewood is 57k. It's no Palo Alto, just a relatively modest town with reasonable local government and people who seem to care a lot. I like this. Illinois is clearly on a fiscal crash course. I have no doubt about that and now that the fair tax was defeated at the ballot box, it's going to accelerate the insolvency. The state needs to get its pension obligations in line with its funding levels. Obviously that's going to take a decade. But I'm pretty convinced that this state's strengths (Chicago, great universities, lots of competent local governments) could make it bounce back. Especially seeing the direction a lot of other states like California are going, or San Francisco, a city that can't seem to balance its $13 billion annual budget after it increase 50% in the last 5-10 years. Any idiot can run Palo Alto, where the median household income is $140k. It takes a lot more to make a city with about 60% less income function.

xapata 6y ago

> when the thing is very important to you Your preferences will change over time. When I was younger, I had an intense desire to provide some grand public good. Now I regret those wasted years, and all I want to do is take pleasant walks around my neighborhood with my dog, and maybe play soccer in the park. Most of us, almost tautologically, are similar to each other. Ask some older people what their preferences are and you'll have a reasonable idea of what you'll be like at their age. Sure, there will be generational differences, but the shift in yourself will be comparable to the shift that other people went through. I shouldn't say I regret those "wasted" years. I regret them only to the extent I regret not having won the lottery, which is to say almost not at all. However, I want to caution against committing to a decision that might limit your options in the future. In particular, the choice of where to live has a dramatic effect on your career, your friends, and your family.

scottLobster 6y ago

Yeah it's hard to develop a general criteria. There are also situations where you may be making a lot of invisible progress, and what appears to be a hopeless situation for years hits a breakthrough and suddenly huge progress is made overnight because people were actually listening to some degree. So trying to map everything out ahead of time can be a fool's errand when you have no objective measures of progress. If the goal is to avoid sunk cost fallacies, I'd say the answer is same as anywhere, budgeting. Develop some general, convenient (very important they're convenient, otherwise you won't track them) metrics, so that way you have at least a general idea of how much time, money, sleep, even vague things like energy level, stress and opportunity costs can be tracked to some degree. That way you have some quantifiable measure of how many resources you're sinking into a project and if it's worth it (ie I was abnormally stressed out directly due to this effort for 137 days last year, is it worth another 137 days of abnormal stress? Or from an opportunity cost perspective I could have spent those 50 hours playing with my kids, would that have been a better investment?) Also set some hard budget ceilings and very stiff criteria (like at least an 80% chance of meaningful progress, whatever that means specifically for the situation) for going over them. That way you don't feel trapped by the ceiling, but it still holds you accountable. Of course it's all on the individual to maintain the metrics and stick to the budget, but I'd argue if you don't have the discipline to do even that you might want to question your ability to execute any plans for more complex community development :)