5 ms·

Modern? Um, arranged marriages, child marriages, and forced marriages are far from modern yet they are inherently transactional and were extremely common in the

by astura 6y ago

Modern? Um, arranged marriages, child marriages, and forced marriages are far from modern yet they are inherently transactional and were extremely common in the past. Hardly modern. We even consider it "tradition" to have a woman's father walk her down the isle during a wedding ceremony to "give her away" - representing a transfer of property from father to husband.

agumonkey 6y ago
I'd like to read about the past 'forced' marriages.. I think we're being led to a mostly financial contract whereas I presume the human context of the past made these things way more emotional than it appears to be.
- watwut 6y ago
  Forced marriage is the one that is forced by someone and you don't want it. There is no reason to put that word into quotes. The fact that someone is getting financial advantage from that does not make it not forced if one of partners does not want it.
  - agumonkey 6y ago
    It's naive to me. Even today you're 'forced' to an extent. You don't marry someone that won't integrate. I think back in the days kids immaturity was just too dangerous to let them marry whoever at the risk of destroying the family. I've seen that even today, when people are free there are long term costs. 1000 years ago it seems obvious that this was a matter of life and death and picking who will your kids marry was both logical and emotional optimum.
deleted 6y ago
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TimTheTinker 6y ago
> "give her away" - representing a transfer of property from father to husband. I doubt you're a father of a daughter you love dearly, or I think you'd see it differently. Have you ever heard a dad half-joking about how reluctant he felt to let his daughter go out on her first date? (Or jokes fathers sometimes tell about cleaning guns when first meeting her new boyfriend, etc.) There is a "letting go" involved, and especially so when she gets married: someone else will be the first man in her life now. "Giving her away" in the wedding ceremony symbolizes that "letting go" that the dad does--hopefully willingly, joyfully, and knowing the man she's marrying will love her dearly.
- lovegoblin 6y ago
  > Have you ever heard a dad half-joking about how reluctant he felt to let his daughter go out on her first date? (Or jokes fathers sometimes tell about cleaning guns when first meeting her new boyfriend, etc.) You're arguing against yourself here. That this trope exists for daughters and not for sons only reinforces the concept of women-as-property.
  - TimTheTinker 6y ago
    I don’t see how that follows logically. Feeling particularly protective of someone under your care doesn’t imply you think of them as property. A more logical conclusion is that you feel protective because you recognize a threat (either real or perceived) to their safety and you have accepted responsibility for protecting them.

by astura 6y ago

agumonkey 6y ago

I'd like to read about the past 'forced' marriages.. I think we're being led to a mostly financial contract whereas I presume the human context of the past made these things way more emotional than it appears to be.

watwut 6y ago
Forced marriage is the one that is forced by someone and you don't want it. There is no reason to put that word into quotes. The fact that someone is getting financial advantage from that does not make it not forced if one of partners does not want it.
- agumonkey 6y ago
  It's naive to me. Even today you're 'forced' to an extent. You don't marry someone that won't integrate. I think back in the days kids immaturity was just too dangerous to let them marry whoever at the risk of destroying the family. I've seen that even today, when people are free there are long term costs. 1000 years ago it seems obvious that this was a matter of life and death and picking who will your kids marry was both logical and emotional optimum.

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

TimTheTinker 6y ago

> "give her away" - representing a transfer of property from father to husband. I doubt you're a father of a daughter you love dearly, or I think you'd see it differently. Have you ever heard a dad half-joking about how reluctant he felt to let his daughter go out on her first date? (Or jokes fathers sometimes tell about cleaning guns when first meeting her new boyfriend, etc.) There is a "letting go" involved, and especially so when she gets married: someone else will be the first man in her life now. "Giving her away" in the wedding ceremony symbolizes that "letting go" that the dad does--hopefully willingly, joyfully, and knowing the man she's marrying will love her dearly.

lovegoblin 6y ago
> Have you ever heard a dad half-joking about how reluctant he felt to let his daughter go out on her first date? (Or jokes fathers sometimes tell about cleaning guns when first meeting her new boyfriend, etc.) You're arguing against yourself here. That this trope exists for daughters and not for sons only reinforces the concept of women-as-property.
- TimTheTinker 6y ago
  I don’t see how that follows logically. Feeling particularly protective of someone under your care doesn’t imply you think of them as property. A more logical conclusion is that you feel protective because you recognize a threat (either real or perceived) to their safety and you have accepted responsibility for protecting them.