4 ms·

Probably a regression from Judeo-Christian values, where personal relationships and the character required to live relationally within a community are valued fa

Probably a regression from Judeo-Christian values, where personal relationships and the character required to live relationally within a community are valued far above transactional or contractual relationships.

paulryanrogers 6y ago
Indeed, let's go back to stoning, slavery, and forcing women to drink dusty water to assuage their husband's jealousy.
- TimTheTinker 6y ago
  Those specific commands you name were given to people who were from a far worse background, and were a huge step up from what they had become accustomed to in their 400 years as slaves in ancient Egypt. As Jesus says about the Mosaic divorce law, "Moses gave you this law because your hearts were hard. But it was not always this way from the beginning." If you want to criticize Judeo-Christian values, I suggest you start from a modern Jewish or Christian understanding of the values or scriptures in question.
  - paulryanrogers 6y ago
    Polygamy modern enough for you? Look you can cherry pick all you want. But I've wasted a few decades trying to work through the inconsistencies and woo. Give me some scientific evidence instead of appealing to authority and nostalgia.
    - TimTheTinker 6y ago
      You were criticizing certain scriptural passages with what seemed to be an obvious lack of understanding of how those passages are understood by modern Jews and Christians. The comment about polygamy is along the same lines -- where it occurs in scriptural narrative, it is not condoned, merely reported truthfully. Modern Jews and Christians don't understand scripture (in whole or in part) to be condoning the practice at all > Give me some scientific evidence instead of appealing to authority and nostalgia. I have appealed to neither authority nor nostalgia, unless you want to call talking about scripture an appeal to authority. The veracity of scripture is a basic assumption in Jewish and Christian belief, and I'll leave it at that. This thread isn't a good place to debate that topic.
      - paulryanrogers 6y ago
        These scriptures don't condemn slavery, polygamy, etc yet they're supposedly authored (however indirectly) by a perfectly moral, all powerful being. In fact they demand women submit to husbands unconditionally, never teach men, not speak up during gatherings, rarely inherit property, and from time to time act as the spoils of war. Modern Christian understanding varies, but even the most progressive is still founded on appeals to an authority who claims should not be tested.
        TimTheTinker 6y ago
        Again, it's clear you don't understand the scriptures you're referring to. I'll keybase you if you want to discuss further (I certainly enjoy discussing these topics!) but this isn't a good forum for that.
- klipt 6y ago
  Luckily we now have DNA tests which are much more accurate for determining paternity than dusty water.

paulryanrogers 6y ago

Indeed, let's go back to stoning, slavery, and forcing women to drink dusty water to assuage their husband's jealousy.

TimTheTinker 6y ago
Those specific commands you name were given to people who were from a far worse background, and were a huge step up from what they had become accustomed to in their 400 years as slaves in ancient Egypt. As Jesus says about the Mosaic divorce law, "Moses gave you this law because your hearts were hard. But it was not always this way from the beginning." If you want to criticize Judeo-Christian values, I suggest you start from a modern Jewish or Christian understanding of the values or scriptures in question.
- paulryanrogers 6y ago
  Polygamy modern enough for you? Look you can cherry pick all you want. But I've wasted a few decades trying to work through the inconsistencies and woo. Give me some scientific evidence instead of appealing to authority and nostalgia.
  - TimTheTinker 6y ago
    You were criticizing certain scriptural passages with what seemed to be an obvious lack of understanding of how those passages are understood by modern Jews and Christians. The comment about polygamy is along the same lines -- where it occurs in scriptural narrative, it is not condoned, merely reported truthfully. Modern Jews and Christians don't understand scripture (in whole or in part) to be condoning the practice at all > Give me some scientific evidence instead of appealing to authority and nostalgia. I have appealed to neither authority nor nostalgia, unless you want to call talking about scripture an appeal to authority. The veracity of scripture is a basic assumption in Jewish and Christian belief, and I'll leave it at that. This thread isn't a good place to debate that topic.
    - paulryanrogers 6y ago
      These scriptures don't condemn slavery, polygamy, etc yet they're supposedly authored (however indirectly) by a perfectly moral, all powerful being. In fact they demand women submit to husbands unconditionally, never teach men, not speak up during gatherings, rarely inherit property, and from time to time act as the spoils of war. Modern Christian understanding varies, but even the most progressive is still founded on appeals to an authority who claims should not be tested.
      - TimTheTinker 6y ago
        Again, it's clear you don't understand the scriptures you're referring to. I'll keybase you if you want to discuss further (I certainly enjoy discussing these topics!) but this isn't a good forum for that.
klipt 6y ago
Luckily we now have DNA tests which are much more accurate for determining paternity than dusty water.